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welcome to the john ford ufo nightmare

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a dedicated ufologist's journey through

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out welcome again iron listeners to the

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john ford ufo nightmare tonight we have

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an interview conducted by marilyn and

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dick carlson and my co-host and

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researcher from paying radio ken storage

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what we'll do in the first segment is we

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will play the

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interview it lasts about 28 to 30

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minutes

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we'll play that we'll go to commercial

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break and we'll be right back with our

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brain trusted researcher so hang in

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there everybody this interview was

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conducted essentially

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the middle of september by

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marilyn and dick carlson and ken storage

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so listen a lot of good information in

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here and we're going to discuss it

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second hour of the show so stand by

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everybody and we'll go live with the

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interview are you there

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yes i am okay i got ken storch on the

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i cannot it's great to talk to you thank

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you for

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uh spending the time with us

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well i can only spend

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10 15 minutes

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okay well then we'll we'll make our

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interview as fast as we can

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um

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you got a new attorney is that correct

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yes his name is stephen metcalf

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and

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he heads up a group of attorneys that

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take cases of people who have been

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wrongfully convicted

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all right and he's out of new york is

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that right

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his office is in manhattan but

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he practices uh

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on long island okay

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um just for your information a week

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copied all of the letters that you had

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written to

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elaine douglas

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and and mailed them to uh metcalfe's

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office so he has them now

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and it'll it'll give him a chance to

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review and look through your case and

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see

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where your frame of mind was at the time

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that you were incarcerated and

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in our opinion is that

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we feel that um you don't belong there

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so um okay yeah ken do you have any

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questions you want to ask john

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um

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have you been told officially what

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you've been diagnosed what is your

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mental disorder that

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well

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i was never told officially by my

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criminal attorney john rouse

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he was supposed to give me copies of

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the papers and he never did

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and he never told me what the diagnosis

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was

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but

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after i got up here about a year and a

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half after i was up here

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i found out what i was diagnosed with

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and i don't think i would have taken the

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plea if i had known what the diagnosis

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was

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and what does that diagnose officially

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what did they tell you

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schizoid effective and paranoid

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delusional

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that's exactly

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the same diagnosis that they gave john

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hinckley

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is out

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i didn't know if you knew that or not

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but john i know okay and so yeah that

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raises uh some

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issues with me

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what kind of treatment have you been

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receiving if any

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medication and

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participation in groups

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no one-on-one sessions with

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psychiatrists

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even though the law says i'm supposed to

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receive uh

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five hours a week one-on-one sessions

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with a psychiatrist they don't honor

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that commitment

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um john you you were in the court uh as

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a

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court office of

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21 years

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and you carried a firearm during those

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21 years is that correct that's correct

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um how come none of this

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symptoms showed up in the 21 years that

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i was i don't have a mental illness well

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yeah i i i understand that that's that

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was my whole point is that all done

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um

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hey when you

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what is your take

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on what i i'm

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on what happened with the suffolk county

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d.a

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why did they go after you was it because

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you were uncovering illegal dumping or

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were you exposing corruption within the

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uh

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county

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no i was not doing either one of those i

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had stumbled upon

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another ufo crash

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that served as the basis for the setting

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of the forest fires the east and forest

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fires

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and

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that was done to cover up its uh

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retrieval

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and also to destroy uh the pine barrels

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to just

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destroy the what pine barrels

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the pine barrens what

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i'm not familiar with that what are the

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fight things that is uh

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in suffolk county uh

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some 300 000 acres of land are preserved

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as part of the watershed

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and it's called the pine barrels okay i

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gotcha i i'm with it well

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why would uh why would they want to

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destroy that

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because uh john powell

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gave the orders to have the forest fires

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set not near the class site

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but near

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the pine mountains in order to destroy

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and to make

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the land

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available to development

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okay

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and that's what i'm looking for is a

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motive why they came after you

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it wasn't motive

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it wasn't just because of the retrieval

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of the crash of whatever it was it was

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the fact that there was serious real

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estate money involved in development and

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they needed that land

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okay all right now that

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that makes a whole lot of sense um

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you know there's been some discussion on

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the radio show about the illegality of

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the warrant that was issued

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for the searching of your house and the

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wiretapping of your of your phones and

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everything were you were you aware

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at the time of your arrest

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that the war was uh

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was uh faulty that it was uh not right

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no i was not aware of that it wasn't

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until uh

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sometime after that when i got a copy of

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the war from mr rouse and i noticed that

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the date

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uh was uh uh

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june 13th instead of june 12th and i

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brought it to mr ross's attention and

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he checked his copy and he said you're

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right he said there's something wrong

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with the search warrant

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mr mouse filed the two motions to have

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the search warrant vacated

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and would deny that because

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the judge involved said that he

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originally did

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want the warrant issued for june 12th

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but the june 13th date was a

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typographical error

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now

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i am going to talk to mr metcalf about

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this

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and he has said that

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the search warrant can be

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vacated

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and

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polled

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because

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yeah i i

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my background is i'm retired law

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enforcement of

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denver colorado and i've written

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and issued uh

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i i can't begin to think the number of

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warrants

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i don't know i don't know how it is in

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suffolk county but rapport county and

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douglas county in which i operated and

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they had the letter perfect or the judge

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wouldn't sign off of you couldn't have

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the wrong date wrong address wrong

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people you had to

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be uh of course your fees and dodge your

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eyes

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well apparently uh

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uh they didn't observe that when uh they

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drew the warrant up

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uh they uh drew it up for the 13th of

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june

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1996

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and it was executed with that date on it

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now

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when they went to file the copy with the

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court

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the detectives in charge of the

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investigation noticed the mistake and

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changed the date on the court file copy

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the detectives did that yes they did

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all right

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well there's there's a whole lot of

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things about your case

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uh that stinks

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uh really really bad it doesn't pass the

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smell pass

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and the fact that you how long have you

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been incarcerated 20 plus years

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uh 21 years

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18 years at mid hudson and 3 years in

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and one of my concerns uh it was and i

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brought this up on the

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on the radio show

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several times

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after that many years i i was worried

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that

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your incarceration

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that you were becoming

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um

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institutionalized you know what i'm

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talking about

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yes

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and and i and i was worried about that

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uh but joe said no if you talk to him

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you'll realize that he's not

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solutionalized

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and

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with you in just a short period of time

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that you're not in realize that you

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still

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want to get out and

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let me ask you this if you were released

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tomorrow would you seek simple

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[Applause]

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course against the state and the county

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that definitely

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and i have asked mr

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metcalf to

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take

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the lawsuit and

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it's going to be more than one lawsuit

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there may be as many as five

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and

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their mother's son

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good

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they exceeded the authority of their

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search warrant when they seized the

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files of lufon incorporated

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and

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they didn't have the authority to seize

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the files

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and

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they're wide open for a lawsuit

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was anybody else at lupron under

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investigation or were you the only one

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uh

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i don't know

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okay

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and do you know where those files are

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that they see we have no idea

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interesting

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i thought preston nichols got some of

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them back but not all of them no he did

293
00:11:21,670 --> 00:11:19,839
not oh okay did not get any of them back

294
00:11:23,190 --> 00:11:21,680
all right

295
00:11:24,710 --> 00:11:23,200
interesting

296
00:11:26,550 --> 00:11:24,720
and uh

297
00:11:29,030 --> 00:11:26,560
when i was

298
00:11:30,550 --> 00:11:29,040
handcuffed and made to sit on my sofa in

299
00:11:34,150 --> 00:11:30,560
my living room

300
00:11:36,470 --> 00:11:34,160
uh the detectives involved

301
00:11:39,430 --> 00:11:36,480
threatened to pistol whip me unless i

302
00:11:42,630 --> 00:11:39,440
told them where the files were they

303
00:11:44,069 --> 00:11:42,640
wanted the files and they wanted to go

304
00:11:46,230 --> 00:11:44,079
through them and

305
00:11:49,509 --> 00:11:46,240
that may seem to be their main

306
00:11:52,230 --> 00:11:49,519
preoccupation hmm

307
00:11:57,990 --> 00:11:52,240
they uh you had dogs and they tortured

308
00:12:02,630 --> 00:11:59,670
what about the gentleman that was living

309
00:12:05,750 --> 00:12:02,640
with you his name was joe too okay

310
00:12:06,710 --> 00:12:05,760
joe maticelli yes yeah joel messicelli

311
00:12:08,949 --> 00:12:06,720
what

312
00:12:10,870 --> 00:12:08,959
how did how did you meet because it

313
00:12:13,430 --> 00:12:10,880
seems to me like he played the pivotal

314
00:12:15,430 --> 00:12:13,440
part point in uh your

315
00:12:17,670 --> 00:12:15,440
your your love and in the ward

316
00:12:20,870 --> 00:12:17,680
application he did

317
00:12:23,269 --> 00:12:20,880
uh mr mazzuchelli is an israeli agent

318
00:12:24,949 --> 00:12:23,279
sent to protect me from my fascination

319
00:12:30,310 --> 00:12:24,959
attempts

320
00:12:34,230 --> 00:12:31,750
how do you how do you know that how did

321
00:12:37,030 --> 00:12:34,240
you find that out

322
00:12:38,629 --> 00:12:37,040
because he wasn't alone he had

323
00:12:42,389 --> 00:12:38,639
quite uh

324
00:12:47,190 --> 00:12:44,230
did he stay at your house

325
00:12:48,949 --> 00:12:47,200
he stayed at my house for three months

326
00:12:50,790 --> 00:12:48,959
okay

327
00:12:52,629 --> 00:12:50,800
he did take some of your guns though and

328
00:12:55,110 --> 00:12:52,639
sell them and he did

329
00:12:56,580 --> 00:12:55,120
and he did time for that correct yes he

330
00:12:57,910 --> 00:12:56,590
did yeah

331
00:13:00,069 --> 00:12:57,920
[Applause]

332
00:13:02,470 --> 00:13:00,079
was he was he also arrested on that

333
00:13:05,030 --> 00:13:02,480
night yes he was

334
00:13:07,750 --> 00:13:06,710
um

335
00:13:08,870 --> 00:13:07,760
john

336
00:13:10,710 --> 00:13:08,880
where

337
00:13:13,750 --> 00:13:10,720
how often do you go to treatment is it

338
00:13:15,750 --> 00:13:13,760
once a week once a month once a day

339
00:13:16,710 --> 00:13:15,760
i go to treatment uh

340
00:13:19,670 --> 00:13:16,720
from

341
00:13:21,430 --> 00:13:19,680
9 30 10 o'clock in the morning to 6 30

342
00:13:22,629 --> 00:13:21,440
seven o'clock at night

343
00:13:24,710 --> 00:13:22,639
every day

344
00:13:25,990 --> 00:13:24,720
holy moly um

345
00:13:30,550 --> 00:13:26,000
have

346
00:13:31,670 --> 00:13:30,560
reports that that the state has done on

347
00:13:33,670 --> 00:13:31,680
you

348
00:13:36,710 --> 00:13:33,680
i got several i'm going to be shipping

349
00:13:37,829 --> 00:13:36,720
out to mrs pottle within the next week

350
00:13:39,829 --> 00:13:37,839
or two

351
00:13:42,150 --> 00:13:39,839
and

352
00:13:44,230 --> 00:13:42,160
i've sent him

353
00:13:45,910 --> 00:13:44,240
correspondence in the past

354
00:13:47,430 --> 00:13:45,920
pertaining to my

355
00:13:51,190 --> 00:13:47,440
evaluations

356
00:13:53,750 --> 00:13:51,200
and he sent them to rick smith and rick

357
00:13:55,910 --> 00:13:53,760
smith is made in public

358
00:13:57,430 --> 00:13:55,920
we have we have the elaine douglas files

359
00:13:58,230 --> 00:13:57,440
set up

360
00:14:00,470 --> 00:13:58,240
with

361
00:14:03,829 --> 00:14:00,480
all the files that elaine had on you

362
00:14:06,470 --> 00:14:03,839
they're they're also up on

363
00:14:08,310 --> 00:14:06,480
our website and the elaine douglas files

364
00:14:09,829 --> 00:14:08,320
website that we set up

365
00:14:11,670 --> 00:14:09,839
so

366
00:14:14,069 --> 00:14:11,680
you know if there's anything that you

367
00:14:17,350 --> 00:14:14,079
want made public just let us know and

368
00:14:19,829 --> 00:14:17,360
we'll we'll post it up there on on

369
00:14:22,470 --> 00:14:19,839
elaine douglas files plus i can i have

370
00:14:25,269 --> 00:14:22,480
elaine douglas files set up under a

371
00:14:27,189 --> 00:14:25,279
facebook page and i can post anything up

372
00:14:31,110 --> 00:14:27,199
there under facebook

373
00:14:33,350 --> 00:14:31,120
so i'll remember that yes so it's it's

374
00:14:35,910 --> 00:14:33,360
that's my avenues for

375
00:14:38,069 --> 00:14:35,920
uh making things public and then

376
00:14:38,949 --> 00:14:38,079
inception radio has

377
00:14:41,350 --> 00:14:38,959
um

378
00:14:43,110 --> 00:14:41,360
set up the monthly radio show that we

379
00:14:45,110 --> 00:14:43,120
all do

380
00:14:49,189 --> 00:14:45,120
with ken storch and

381
00:14:52,069 --> 00:14:49,199
mj lucas and um

382
00:14:55,590 --> 00:14:52,079
richard yeah bob tarmac and richard

383
00:14:59,430 --> 00:14:55,600
smith occasionally and uh peter moon and

384
00:15:01,430 --> 00:14:59,440
so we've we've had quite a few people um

385
00:15:02,310 --> 00:15:01,440
coming on and talking about your case

386
00:15:03,350 --> 00:15:02,320
and

387
00:15:04,150 --> 00:15:03,360
um

388
00:15:06,629 --> 00:15:04,160
so

389
00:15:08,629 --> 00:15:06,639
and we try to keep everybody updated on

390
00:15:11,030 --> 00:15:08,639
what's going on with you i appreciate

391
00:15:14,069 --> 00:15:11,040
what you're doing

392
00:15:15,670 --> 00:15:14,079
to yeah this but i i have to apologize i

393
00:15:17,990 --> 00:15:15,680
haven't been uh

394
00:15:20,310 --> 00:15:18,000
able to contact you as regularly as i

395
00:15:23,110 --> 00:15:20,320
should that's okay because of my program

396
00:15:24,790 --> 00:15:23,120
schedule i don't have the free time yeah

397
00:15:26,790 --> 00:15:24,800
well and it's more important that you

398
00:15:29,189 --> 00:15:26,800
talk to joe and take care of business

399
00:15:30,790 --> 00:15:29,199
rather than just calling and

400
00:15:33,670 --> 00:15:30,800
chit-chatting with us

401
00:15:36,389 --> 00:15:33,680
but we'll we'll try and do this again

402
00:15:38,949 --> 00:15:36,399
sometime when uh we can

403
00:15:41,430 --> 00:15:38,959
when we can uh talk with you again when

404
00:15:42,870 --> 00:15:41,440
there's things going on we'll just do

405
00:15:44,629 --> 00:15:42,880
like we did before we'll make

406
00:15:47,509 --> 00:15:44,639
arrangements for you to call me and then

407
00:15:48,550 --> 00:15:47,519
i'll i'll call ken and bring him in on

408
00:15:50,069 --> 00:15:48,560
on the

409
00:15:52,790 --> 00:15:50,079
call so

410
00:15:54,710 --> 00:15:52,800
um okay that's good yeah

411
00:15:56,310 --> 00:15:54,720
are you allowed to have visitors

412
00:15:57,590 --> 00:15:56,320
yes i am

413
00:16:12,389 --> 00:15:57,600
a

414
00:16:13,829 --> 00:16:12,399
on the weekends

415
00:16:15,910 --> 00:16:13,839
also

416
00:16:17,509 --> 00:16:15,920
okay

417
00:16:20,470 --> 00:16:17,519
yeah dad but

418
00:16:21,829 --> 00:16:20,480
you know do you have any evaluation

419
00:16:23,509 --> 00:16:21,839
reports

420
00:16:26,230 --> 00:16:23,519
from your superiors when you worked

421
00:16:27,110 --> 00:16:26,240
within the court system

422
00:16:28,790 --> 00:16:27,120
not

423
00:16:31,269 --> 00:16:28,800
available

424
00:16:35,990 --> 00:16:31,279
from what my brother told me when he

425
00:16:38,550 --> 00:16:36,000
took charge of my affairs and he had to

426
00:16:40,710 --> 00:16:38,560
check the house out he said they took

427
00:16:43,910 --> 00:16:40,720
all your papers

428
00:16:46,069 --> 00:16:43,920
so my personal papers

429
00:16:49,030 --> 00:16:46,079
were taken and

430
00:16:53,430 --> 00:16:49,040
possibly destroyed by them and i don't

431
00:16:58,710 --> 00:16:56,310
well yeah i find it really curious that

432
00:16:59,910 --> 00:16:58,720
for 21 years

433
00:17:01,269 --> 00:16:59,920
you were

434
00:17:03,829 --> 00:17:01,279
apparently

435
00:17:04,949 --> 00:17:03,839
cohesive insane enough to be a court

436
00:17:06,789 --> 00:17:04,959
officer

437
00:17:11,110 --> 00:17:06,799
and carry a gun and then all of a sudden

438
00:17:15,350 --> 00:17:12,230
and

439
00:17:17,750 --> 00:17:15,360
the state the one that did the

440
00:17:21,029 --> 00:17:17,760
analysis that correct

441
00:17:26,949 --> 00:17:24,390
have you had a outside

442
00:17:28,950 --> 00:17:26,959
doctor evaluate your case

443
00:17:32,070 --> 00:17:28,960
yes

444
00:17:34,710 --> 00:17:32,080
do you know what the results of that was

445
00:17:37,190 --> 00:17:34,720
uh somewhat favorable uh the doctor i'm

446
00:17:38,310 --> 00:17:37,200
using on my challenge for my retention

447
00:17:40,549 --> 00:17:38,320
order

448
00:17:43,510 --> 00:17:40,559
has said that i'm not dangerous

449
00:17:45,830 --> 00:17:43,520
so his testimony will be taken when we

450
00:17:47,669 --> 00:17:45,840
take the retention order in the courts

451
00:17:49,830 --> 00:17:47,679
in october

452
00:17:52,870 --> 00:17:49,840
uh uh october of this year

453
00:17:55,190 --> 00:17:52,880
yes oh good do you have a date a date in

454
00:17:57,430 --> 00:17:55,200
uh october

455
00:17:59,270 --> 00:17:57,440
no not yet okay

456
00:18:00,470 --> 00:17:59,280
have you had contact with medcap

457
00:18:02,390 --> 00:18:00,480
yourself

458
00:18:03,590 --> 00:18:02,400
i talk to him at least two or three

459
00:18:05,750 --> 00:18:03,600
times a week

460
00:18:08,390 --> 00:18:05,760
he's coming up here in two weeks to see

461
00:18:09,909 --> 00:18:08,400
me has he has he interviewed joseph

462
00:18:11,990 --> 00:18:09,919
zapato yet

463
00:18:14,950 --> 00:18:12,000
yes he has oh great

464
00:18:17,350 --> 00:18:14,960
because joseph is like a walking

465
00:18:20,150 --> 00:18:17,360
uh talking

466
00:18:22,310 --> 00:18:20,160
uh information bank

467
00:18:24,630 --> 00:18:22,320
on your case he just he knows everything

468
00:18:27,669 --> 00:18:24,640
that's going on down to every little

469
00:18:29,750 --> 00:18:27,679
detail and i sure appreciate what joseph

470
00:18:30,870 --> 00:18:29,760
has done for us when we do our radio

471
00:18:33,830 --> 00:18:30,880
programming

472
00:18:35,190 --> 00:18:33,840
so that's good yeah all right

473
00:18:37,190 --> 00:18:35,200
just one thing

474
00:18:41,510 --> 00:18:37,200
i don't know uh way

475
00:18:46,870 --> 00:18:43,830
him information pertaining to corruption

476
00:18:53,669 --> 00:18:50,150
misdeeds uh by counting figures

477
00:18:55,990 --> 00:18:53,679
uh that is a complete lie and uh it's a

478
00:18:58,470 --> 00:18:56,000
falsehood okay and

479
00:19:00,470 --> 00:18:58,480
i want to set the record straight

480
00:19:03,350 --> 00:19:00,480
my uh

481
00:19:06,070 --> 00:19:03,360
interest was ufos and their interest was

482
00:19:09,110 --> 00:19:06,080
to find out what i knew about

483
00:19:11,350 --> 00:19:09,120
the crash out in riverhead

484
00:19:12,549 --> 00:19:11,360
i think i think our point may have been

485
00:19:15,270 --> 00:19:12,559
john that

486
00:19:18,070 --> 00:19:15,280
there there was corruption going on in

487
00:19:20,150 --> 00:19:18,080
um in the county even though you had

488
00:19:22,710 --> 00:19:20,160
nothing to do with it or really knew

489
00:19:24,390 --> 00:19:22,720
exactly what that corruption was there's

490
00:19:27,830 --> 00:19:24,400
evidence that there was corruption and

491
00:19:28,549 --> 00:19:27,840
that was that corruption that set you up

492
00:19:32,230 --> 00:19:28,559
so

493
00:19:34,150 --> 00:19:32,240
i think that's kind of where no you know

494
00:19:37,029 --> 00:19:34,160
that

495
00:19:39,029 --> 00:19:37,039
was not the reason why they did it

496
00:19:40,630 --> 00:19:39,039
i uh

497
00:19:43,350 --> 00:19:40,640
was a threat to them because of my

498
00:19:46,630 --> 00:19:43,360
knowledge of what happened with uh

499
00:19:48,549 --> 00:19:46,640
the forest fires okay okay

500
00:19:49,830 --> 00:19:48,559
all right well good i'm glad we got that

501
00:19:51,110 --> 00:19:49,840
straightened out

502
00:19:53,110 --> 00:19:51,120
well and

503
00:19:55,110 --> 00:19:53,120
and that in itself is a powerful motive

504
00:19:57,750 --> 00:19:55,120
because you're talking serious money on

505
00:19:59,430 --> 00:19:57,760
development of the of the of the pain

506
00:20:00,789 --> 00:19:59,440
would you would you call that area the

507
00:20:02,230 --> 00:20:00,799
final

508
00:20:03,830 --> 00:20:02,240
prime variance

509
00:20:06,150 --> 00:20:03,840
right hey

510
00:20:08,230 --> 00:20:06,160
did the development go forward on the

511
00:20:11,350 --> 00:20:08,240
pipeline no they haven't done anything

512
00:20:12,390 --> 00:20:11,360
with it the land lies foul

513
00:20:14,950 --> 00:20:12,400
they

514
00:20:17,110 --> 00:20:14,960
the forest didn't come back

515
00:20:18,549 --> 00:20:17,120
and

516
00:20:19,750 --> 00:20:18,559
it

517
00:20:22,549 --> 00:20:19,760
is uh

518
00:20:24,150 --> 00:20:22,559
for practical purposes barren and

519
00:20:26,070 --> 00:20:24,160
unproductive

520
00:20:27,990 --> 00:20:26,080
wow

521
00:20:32,310 --> 00:20:28,000
did you were you involved with

522
00:20:37,590 --> 00:20:34,789
brookhaven labs yes

523
00:20:43,270 --> 00:20:39,990
okay because apparently uh the brooklyn

524
00:20:46,549 --> 00:20:43,280
haven had their own fire department and

525
00:20:49,110 --> 00:20:46,559
and it has been said that they were also

526
00:20:51,430 --> 00:20:49,120
dispatched to this fire that had

527
00:20:53,270 --> 00:20:51,440
occurred were you aware of that

528
00:20:54,470 --> 00:20:53,280
no it wasn't

529
00:20:56,230 --> 00:20:54,480
interesting

530
00:20:58,470 --> 00:20:56,240
okay so you didn't have you didn't have

531
00:21:01,110 --> 00:20:58,480
any any input or knowledge about

532
00:21:04,230 --> 00:21:01,120
brookhaven labs concerning this crash or

533
00:21:05,909 --> 00:21:04,240
any of the ufo sightings that were going

534
00:21:06,870 --> 00:21:05,919
on

535
00:21:08,390 --> 00:21:06,880
now

536
00:21:11,750 --> 00:21:08,400
we

537
00:21:13,110 --> 00:21:11,760
got the information on

538
00:21:15,510 --> 00:21:13,120
the crash

539
00:21:19,590 --> 00:21:15,520
to the efforts of

540
00:21:22,149 --> 00:21:19,600
dottie and gary tritt two roufon members

541
00:21:23,590 --> 00:21:22,159
whose secretary had spoken to a

542
00:21:25,510 --> 00:21:23,600
gentleman by the name of stephen

543
00:21:27,430 --> 00:21:25,520
marinara

544
00:21:30,710 --> 00:21:27,440
who was the witness who discovered the

545
00:21:31,750 --> 00:21:30,720
crash and reported it to the fbi

546
00:21:34,230 --> 00:21:31,760
and

547
00:21:35,750 --> 00:21:34,240
he was silenced by the fbi he won't talk

548
00:21:36,789 --> 00:21:35,760
to anybody

549
00:21:38,950 --> 00:21:36,799
and

550
00:21:41,270 --> 00:21:38,960
it just was uh

551
00:21:42,710 --> 00:21:41,280
the trent's secretary who told us the

552
00:21:45,669 --> 00:21:42,720
story

553
00:21:49,990 --> 00:21:45,679
so uh uh our

554
00:21:51,350 --> 00:21:50,000
evidence for uh the ufo crash is tenuous

555
00:21:53,990 --> 00:21:51,360
and uh

556
00:21:56,470 --> 00:21:54,000
really uh we don't have that much about

557
00:22:00,310 --> 00:21:56,480
it well there's a photograph that was in

558
00:22:03,350 --> 00:22:00,320
elaine's files uh it it almost looks

559
00:22:04,070 --> 00:22:03,360
like an alien in it uh and a in a burned

560
00:22:04,950 --> 00:22:04,080
out

561
00:22:06,870 --> 00:22:04,960
uh

562
00:22:11,029 --> 00:22:06,880
near a burned-out log

563
00:22:13,750 --> 00:22:11,039
and you said do you see what i see

564
00:22:16,310 --> 00:22:13,760
and it was titled auto

565
00:22:17,909 --> 00:22:16,320
do you do you recall that photograph

566
00:22:19,270 --> 00:22:17,919
no

567
00:22:21,270 --> 00:22:19,280
interesting

568
00:22:22,870 --> 00:22:21,280
it was in elaine's files i don't know

569
00:22:25,270 --> 00:22:22,880
where she got it

570
00:22:27,270 --> 00:22:25,280
but it was it was stuck in your your

571
00:22:29,430 --> 00:22:27,280
file the john ford file which is

572
00:22:32,549 --> 00:22:29,440
interesting well we had photographs of

573
00:22:34,950 --> 00:22:32,559
the alien bodies from uh

574
00:22:37,029 --> 00:22:34,960
the south haven park crash

575
00:22:39,270 --> 00:22:37,039
okay and

576
00:22:42,149 --> 00:22:39,280
we had quite a display of them

577
00:22:44,630 --> 00:22:42,159
and we also had it on videotape

578
00:22:51,190 --> 00:22:48,310
elaine was to our conference we had on

579
00:22:54,549 --> 00:22:51,200
a subject of south haven park

580
00:22:55,430 --> 00:22:54,559
and she may have gotten the photograph

581
00:22:57,270 --> 00:22:55,440
from

582
00:23:01,750 --> 00:22:57,280
preston nichols when

583
00:23:04,549 --> 00:23:01,760
she was there yeah i've tried to locate

584
00:23:06,310 --> 00:23:04,559
uh the video and i'm totally unable to

585
00:23:09,190 --> 00:23:06,320
find the video

586
00:23:11,110 --> 00:23:09,200
we obviously missed it in when we went

587
00:23:12,310 --> 00:23:11,120
and got elaine's clothes any copies

588
00:23:15,430 --> 00:23:12,320
available

589
00:23:18,230 --> 00:23:15,440
two years after i was in mid hudson

590
00:23:21,029 --> 00:23:18,240
uh steve ivalone our acting chairman

591
00:23:23,029 --> 00:23:21,039
took possession of our tape archives

592
00:23:24,230 --> 00:23:23,039
which the southern county police did not

593
00:23:26,710 --> 00:23:24,240
seize

594
00:23:29,190 --> 00:23:26,720
and his house was burglarized

595
00:23:30,390 --> 00:23:29,200
and ransacked and they stole our

596
00:23:31,830 --> 00:23:30,400
complete

597
00:23:34,230 --> 00:23:31,840
uh

598
00:23:35,350 --> 00:23:34,240
archives of tape recordings and amongst

599
00:23:38,549 --> 00:23:35,360
them was

600
00:23:42,549 --> 00:23:38,559
the tapes of

601
00:23:43,510 --> 00:23:42,559
the south haven park clash wow

602
00:23:46,710 --> 00:23:43,520
so

603
00:23:48,870 --> 00:23:46,720
they've probably been destroyed and

604
00:23:50,870 --> 00:23:48,880
we will never see him again but

605
00:23:53,590 --> 00:23:50,880
at least we had him and at least we made

606
00:23:55,909 --> 00:23:53,600
it public yeah yeah

607
00:23:57,990 --> 00:23:55,919
wow

608
00:24:00,230 --> 00:23:58,000
john have you have you

609
00:24:02,789 --> 00:24:00,240
were you physically on the crash site

610
00:24:04,710 --> 00:24:02,799
and and uh

611
00:24:07,110 --> 00:24:04,720
were you working for the

612
00:24:10,390 --> 00:24:07,120
suffolk county courts at the time you

613
00:24:12,870 --> 00:24:10,400
were investigating uh the crash

614
00:24:15,750 --> 00:24:12,880
okay which one

615
00:24:19,669 --> 00:24:15,760
the south haven one we've we've been

616
00:24:24,070 --> 00:24:19,679
able to document five ufo crashes on

617
00:24:26,390 --> 00:24:24,080
long island in the past uh 25 30 years

618
00:24:28,390 --> 00:24:26,400
and when the south haven one were you

619
00:24:29,269 --> 00:24:28,400
were you currently uh

620
00:24:39,510 --> 00:24:29,279
i

621
00:24:41,029 --> 00:24:39,520
and

622
00:24:47,669 --> 00:24:41,039
i

623
00:24:52,149 --> 00:24:47,679
cancer surgery and she couldn't be left

624
00:24:56,390 --> 00:24:53,990
at the time of your arrest were you

625
00:24:59,430 --> 00:24:56,400
currently employed by this the suffolk

626
00:25:02,870 --> 00:24:59,440
county court so no i had retired oh okay

627
00:25:05,909 --> 00:25:02,880
okay that clears up an issue for me okay

628
00:25:10,870 --> 00:25:08,310
how long have you been retired

629
00:25:14,950 --> 00:25:10,880
since 1993

630
00:25:17,190 --> 00:25:14,960
93 and you were arrested in 96 right

631
00:25:19,990 --> 00:25:17,200
right that's correct so

632
00:25:22,870 --> 00:25:20,000
three years later

633
00:25:24,789 --> 00:25:22,880
okay okay um

634
00:25:26,870 --> 00:25:24,799
well i guess what i don't understand is

635
00:25:28,870 --> 00:25:26,880
why reno was your first

636
00:25:30,950 --> 00:25:28,880
attorney is that correct

637
00:25:33,590 --> 00:25:30,960
no he was my second

638
00:25:35,590 --> 00:25:33,600
oh okay okay

639
00:25:37,990 --> 00:25:35,600
roush was his first attorney

640
00:25:40,549 --> 00:25:38,000
was your first person and he was a lousy

641
00:25:42,470 --> 00:25:40,559
attorney he did nothing to help me yeah

642
00:25:45,110 --> 00:25:42,480
sounds like it he was the one that

643
00:25:46,070 --> 00:25:45,120
advised that you take the uh

644
00:25:48,149 --> 00:25:46,080
uh

645
00:25:50,310 --> 00:25:48,159
mentally ill plea right

646
00:25:51,830 --> 00:25:50,320
yes

647
00:25:53,590 --> 00:25:51,840
he told me i wasn't going to be here

648
00:25:56,070 --> 00:25:53,600
that long right there was

649
00:25:59,669 --> 00:25:56,080
a little wrong with me and he said

650
00:26:01,909 --> 00:25:59,679
maximum two to three years yeah so uh

651
00:26:04,630 --> 00:26:01,919
uh he was wrong and he knew uh

652
00:26:06,549 --> 00:26:04,640
differently and he stared me

653
00:26:09,669 --> 00:26:06,559
to take the plea because

654
00:26:14,070 --> 00:26:09,679
he had been corrupted by uh outside

655
00:26:18,070 --> 00:26:15,830
do you think the d.a

656
00:26:21,269 --> 00:26:18,080
was directly involved in your case in

657
00:26:23,430 --> 00:26:21,279
terms of yes he was yes he was

658
00:26:25,669 --> 00:26:23,440
the night i was brought over to the

659
00:26:27,029 --> 00:26:25,679
district attorney's office

660
00:26:30,789 --> 00:26:27,039
mr

661
00:26:32,950 --> 00:26:30,799
uh patterson the d.a personally

662
00:26:36,390 --> 00:26:32,960
threatened me and said i'm going to get

663
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:41,830
those were his exact words yes

664
00:26:47,350 --> 00:26:44,390
and and the whole the conspiracy part of

665
00:26:49,909 --> 00:26:47,360
it was that uh you were going to put uh

666
00:26:52,470 --> 00:26:49,919
radioactive material in toothpaste is

667
00:26:53,350 --> 00:26:52,480
that how i understand it

668
00:26:56,310 --> 00:26:53,360
yes

669
00:26:58,630 --> 00:26:56,320
well i bet it's so ridiculous

670
00:27:01,350 --> 00:26:58,640
there's no way you could have fit inside

671
00:27:03,510 --> 00:27:01,360
a toothpaste canister and uh i don't

672
00:27:07,909 --> 00:27:04,549
besides

673
00:27:10,310 --> 00:27:07,919
the radioactive material that

674
00:27:11,750 --> 00:27:10,320
they uh made an issue of

675
00:27:14,070 --> 00:27:11,760
was harmless

676
00:27:16,149 --> 00:27:14,080
yeah did it take 25 30 years for

677
00:27:17,990 --> 00:27:16,159
somebody to become ill with it

678
00:27:20,230 --> 00:27:18,000
yes that's true

679
00:27:22,789 --> 00:27:20,240
okay i'm going to have to get going well

680
00:27:25,430 --> 00:27:22,799
thank you john we appreciate your

681
00:27:27,190 --> 00:27:25,440
uh agreeing to do this and uh

682
00:27:28,789 --> 00:27:27,200
we'll see to it that you get a copy of

683
00:27:31,590 --> 00:27:28,799
this interview

684
00:27:34,549 --> 00:27:31,600
okay good enough take care we're pulling

685
00:27:37,190 --> 00:27:34,559
for you okay now by the way how is your

686
00:27:39,909 --> 00:27:37,200
son doing he is doing good he's walking

687
00:27:42,630 --> 00:27:39,919
uh he lives about a a half a mile from

688
00:27:45,510 --> 00:27:42,640
us so we can look after him so he's

689
00:27:47,430 --> 00:27:45,520
living on his own yeah good

690
00:27:50,230 --> 00:27:47,440
good i'm glad to hear that yes thanks

691
00:27:52,310 --> 00:27:50,240
for asking yeah all right god bless you

692
00:27:55,269 --> 00:27:52,320
and uh i'll be in touch with you in the

693
00:27:57,750 --> 00:27:55,279
future okay bless you too nice talking

694
00:27:59,350 --> 00:27:57,760
with you john take care ken bye bye bye

695
00:28:01,110 --> 00:27:59,360
bye

696
00:28:02,789 --> 00:28:01,120
and there you have it that was a 28

697
00:28:05,190 --> 00:28:02,799
minute interview conducted by marilyn

698
00:28:06,789 --> 00:28:05,200
and dick carlson and ken storch back in

699
00:28:07,990 --> 00:28:06,799
mid-september with john

700
00:28:09,909 --> 00:28:08,000
right after the break we're going to

701
00:28:18,549 --> 00:28:09,919
have our brain trust come on so stand by

702
00:28:23,430 --> 00:28:20,549
welcome back everybody to the john ford

703
00:28:26,070 --> 00:28:23,440
ufo nightmare the interview i'm joined

704
00:28:27,909 --> 00:28:26,080
by fellow researchers ken storch tonight

705
00:28:28,789 --> 00:28:27,919
uh one of the interviewees how you doing

706
00:28:31,190 --> 00:28:28,799
ken

707
00:28:32,870 --> 00:28:31,200
hey i'm doing fine thanks mmj and we

708
00:28:34,710 --> 00:28:32,880
have josephardo on there how are you

709
00:28:36,950 --> 00:28:34,720
doing joe

710
00:28:38,950 --> 00:28:36,960
hi how are you doing jay it's great to

711
00:28:41,110 --> 00:28:38,960
have you and we're we're

712
00:28:42,789 --> 00:28:41,120
uh blessed with uh rich smith who showed

713
00:28:44,950 --> 00:28:42,799
us some awesome hot air balloon pictures

714
00:28:47,029 --> 00:28:44,960
today thanks for sharing that rich

715
00:28:49,590 --> 00:28:47,039
no problem yeah good to be here good to

716
00:28:51,669 --> 00:28:49,600
be here thank you now can ken we just

717
00:28:53,830 --> 00:28:51,679
played the interview between uh john you

718
00:28:56,470 --> 00:28:53,840
marilyn and dick and uh

719
00:28:58,870 --> 00:28:56,480
that was about a 20 minute 28 minute

720
00:29:00,230 --> 00:28:58,880
interview you did last september so what

721
00:29:01,909 --> 00:29:00,240
were your thoughts on john i mean

722
00:29:04,630 --> 00:29:01,919
talking to him firsthand

723
00:29:07,510 --> 00:29:04,640
well you know initially i was uh

724
00:29:10,950 --> 00:29:07,520
apprehensive uh when

725
00:29:12,549 --> 00:29:10,960
he first came on online

726
00:29:13,909 --> 00:29:12,559
only from the standpoint

727
00:29:15,669 --> 00:29:13,919
and and

728
00:29:17,350 --> 00:29:15,679
uh i was

729
00:29:18,470 --> 00:29:17,360
concerned

730
00:29:20,710 --> 00:29:18,480
that

731
00:29:23,750 --> 00:29:20,720
um john

732
00:29:25,750 --> 00:29:23,760
may have been institutionalized and and

733
00:29:27,350 --> 00:29:25,760
what that means is it's kind of like the

734
00:29:28,950 --> 00:29:27,360
stockholm syndrome you know being

735
00:29:30,870 --> 00:29:28,960
incarcerated

736
00:29:31,909 --> 00:29:30,880
for over 20 years

737
00:29:34,149 --> 00:29:31,919
um

738
00:29:35,830 --> 00:29:34,159
you know the old the adage has three

739
00:29:39,110 --> 00:29:35,840
huts and a cot

740
00:29:40,310 --> 00:29:39,120
and his his day is planned out for him

741
00:29:42,630 --> 00:29:40,320
he doesn't have to take any

742
00:29:44,630 --> 00:29:42,640
responsibility his meals are served to

743
00:29:47,909 --> 00:29:44,640
him and he has

744
00:29:54,389 --> 00:29:51,029
his time is taken up by whatever the

745
00:29:57,590 --> 00:29:54,399
incarceration or the the

746
00:29:59,110 --> 00:29:57,600
research mental health facility uh

747
00:30:01,669 --> 00:29:59,120
deals out to them

748
00:30:03,350 --> 00:30:01,679
and that's not the case after spending a

749
00:30:05,590 --> 00:30:03,360
little over 20 minutes with them it

750
00:30:07,430 --> 00:30:05,600
became very apparent to me

751
00:30:08,870 --> 00:30:07,440
that uh john

752
00:30:10,310 --> 00:30:08,880
and i knew this

753
00:30:11,830 --> 00:30:10,320
uh in

754
00:30:13,909 --> 00:30:11,840
with the uh

755
00:30:16,710 --> 00:30:13,919
with the letters that uh he had

756
00:30:19,430 --> 00:30:16,720
corresponded with elaine douglas

757
00:30:22,549 --> 00:30:19,440
while he had been arrested that he was

758
00:30:24,710 --> 00:30:22,559
very lucid and he's sane and i'm

759
00:30:26,549 --> 00:30:24,720
convinced more than ever and granted i

760
00:30:29,350 --> 00:30:26,559
am not a psychiatrist for any stretch of

761
00:30:32,630 --> 00:30:29,360
the imagination but he answered

762
00:30:35,029 --> 00:30:32,640
um all the questions that i put to him

763
00:30:37,110 --> 00:30:35,039
and they were

764
00:30:39,750 --> 00:30:37,120
legitimate answers

765
00:30:41,909 --> 00:30:39,760
uh he knows what's going on he knows

766
00:30:43,190 --> 00:30:41,919
where he wants to go and he wants to get

767
00:30:45,029 --> 00:30:43,200
out so

768
00:30:47,669 --> 00:30:45,039
uh to you joe

769
00:30:49,990 --> 00:30:47,679
i um you know i guess i eat a little i

770
00:30:51,669 --> 00:30:50,000
eat a little bit of crow because you

771
00:30:53,269 --> 00:30:51,679
know in the past

772
00:30:54,789 --> 00:30:53,279
when we've been on the air and talking

773
00:30:57,110 --> 00:30:54,799
about it i

774
00:30:58,789 --> 00:30:57,120
i was concerned that that he may have

775
00:30:59,830 --> 00:30:58,799
been institutionalized and that he

776
00:31:02,389 --> 00:30:59,840
wasn't

777
00:31:04,230 --> 00:31:02,399
uh wanting uh to be a free man but

778
00:31:05,830 --> 00:31:04,240
that's not the case at all but yeah and

779
00:31:07,990 --> 00:31:05,840
you're right

780
00:31:09,909 --> 00:31:08,000
i got it i pretty much assured you yep i

781
00:31:11,590 --> 00:31:09,919
pretty much assured you once you speak

782
00:31:15,029 --> 00:31:11,600
with him you'd understand progressive

783
00:31:17,669 --> 00:31:15,039
presents mind flowness with flow before

784
00:31:19,590 --> 00:31:17,679
you lie is a beautiful meadow in that

785
00:31:21,830 --> 00:31:19,600
meadow progressive direct has placed its

786
00:31:24,070 --> 00:31:21,840
auto insurance rates alongside those of

787
00:31:26,549 --> 00:31:24,080
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788
00:31:27,669 --> 00:31:26,559
and feel a great sense of calm

789
00:31:28,190 --> 00:31:27,679
a great

790
00:31:29,830 --> 00:31:28,200
sense

791
00:31:31,350 --> 00:31:29,840
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792
00:31:33,909 --> 00:31:31,360
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793
00:31:35,750 --> 00:31:33,919
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794
00:31:37,029 --> 00:31:35,760
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795
00:31:38,230 --> 00:31:37,039
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796
00:31:39,669 --> 00:31:38,240
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797
00:31:40,789 --> 00:31:39,679
states or situations prices vary based

798
00:31:42,789 --> 00:31:40,799
on how you buy

799
00:31:45,190 --> 00:31:42,799
dan that's all he talks about is getting

800
00:31:47,990 --> 00:31:45,200
out when he calls here he tells me what

801
00:31:49,909 --> 00:31:48,000
the attorney's doing who i should call

802
00:31:52,070 --> 00:31:49,919
uh you know this that the other thing

803
00:31:54,630 --> 00:31:52,080
but it's always about getting out it's

804
00:31:56,630 --> 00:31:54,640
always looking forward you know so i

805
00:31:58,549 --> 00:31:56,640
knew once you spoke with him that you'd

806
00:32:00,230 --> 00:31:58,559
know right away where this guy is coming

807
00:32:02,230 --> 00:32:00,240
from and you'd know exactly what you

808
00:32:04,630 --> 00:32:02,240
were dealing with because this is a

809
00:32:06,310 --> 00:32:04,640
perfectly sane individual

810
00:32:09,350 --> 00:32:06,320
with you know that just got caught in

811
00:32:11,509 --> 00:32:09,360
you know in a bad situation

812
00:32:15,029 --> 00:32:11,519
political crimes

813
00:32:17,830 --> 00:32:15,039
oh i think he was set up most definitely

814
00:32:19,509 --> 00:32:17,840
i mean based upon what we know and the

815
00:32:21,669 --> 00:32:19,519
circumstances surrounding his

816
00:32:23,750 --> 00:32:21,679
incarceration his arrest

817
00:32:25,269 --> 00:32:23,760
uh the search warrant the arrest warrant

818
00:32:26,870 --> 00:32:25,279
all of that

819
00:32:29,190 --> 00:32:26,880
i think uh

820
00:32:30,070 --> 00:32:29,200
um he was

821
00:32:31,509 --> 00:32:30,080
um

822
00:32:32,549 --> 00:32:31,519
set up

823
00:32:33,669 --> 00:32:32,559
and

824
00:32:35,990 --> 00:32:33,679
um

825
00:32:38,950 --> 00:32:36,000
i think his first attorney

826
00:32:41,590 --> 00:32:38,960
reno is that is that who that was

827
00:32:45,430 --> 00:32:41,600
uh one no the the early the earliest one

828
00:32:48,549 --> 00:32:45,440
he had was um uh rouse

829
00:32:50,950 --> 00:32:48,559
yeah right yeah um did him a real

830
00:32:54,630 --> 00:32:50,960
disfavor and i'm i'm not convinced that

831
00:32:58,149 --> 00:32:54,640
that wasn't was not intentional

832
00:33:00,389 --> 00:32:58,159
right exactly exactly um there's there's

833
00:33:02,630 --> 00:33:00,399
some there's some support

834
00:33:04,070 --> 00:33:02,640
there's some support to that as well

835
00:33:06,070 --> 00:33:04,080
from um

836
00:33:07,110 --> 00:33:06,080
several of the uh people that john

837
00:33:08,389 --> 00:33:07,120
worked with

838
00:33:11,110 --> 00:33:08,399
at the uh

839
00:33:13,590 --> 00:33:11,120
state supreme court riverhead

840
00:33:16,470 --> 00:33:13,600
and um you know they they

841
00:33:19,909 --> 00:33:16,480
actually overheard uh one of one or two

842
00:33:22,710 --> 00:33:19,919
of them overheard someone say you know

843
00:33:25,029 --> 00:33:22,720
actually john powell speaks to someone

844
00:33:26,310 --> 00:33:25,039
saying i want this guy

845
00:33:28,389 --> 00:33:26,320
uh

846
00:33:30,149 --> 00:33:28,399
you know withdrawn rouse right there i

847
00:33:32,070 --> 00:33:30,159
want him i want to walk in a room and

848
00:33:34,230 --> 00:33:32,080
throw away the room

849
00:33:36,870 --> 00:33:34,240
okay right i mean that's a

850
00:33:38,789 --> 00:33:36,880
quote that i that i heard directly from

851
00:33:41,110 --> 00:33:38,799
a guy that worked with john and they

852
00:33:43,110 --> 00:33:41,120
were protecting him from being poisoned

853
00:33:45,029 --> 00:33:43,120
they were bringing him food

854
00:33:46,230 --> 00:33:45,039
uh they wouldn't bring him into court

855
00:33:48,310 --> 00:33:46,240
shackled

856
00:33:49,750 --> 00:33:48,320
the way uh the way they they were they

857
00:33:51,669 --> 00:33:49,760
were told to

858
00:33:54,389 --> 00:33:51,679
you know they basically you know they

859
00:33:56,070 --> 00:33:54,399
didn't violate any any uh

860
00:33:57,830 --> 00:33:56,080
you know any direct orders but they

861
00:34:00,070 --> 00:33:57,840
wouldn't they said no there's no need to

862
00:34:01,990 --> 00:34:00,080
bring him in shackled he's a co-worker

863
00:34:03,509 --> 00:34:02,000
he's not gonna fight us

864
00:34:06,070 --> 00:34:03,519
you know

865
00:34:12,310 --> 00:34:06,080
um

866
00:34:14,310 --> 00:34:12,320
in fact i'm

867
00:34:16,550 --> 00:34:14,320
99 and nine tenths

868
00:34:18,869 --> 00:34:16,560
percent convinced that

869
00:34:21,270 --> 00:34:18,879
um the interview that we did with him

870
00:34:23,430 --> 00:34:21,280
was not only being taped but it was

871
00:34:25,109 --> 00:34:23,440
being listened to

872
00:34:27,589 --> 00:34:25,119
because i could hear clicking

873
00:34:28,629 --> 00:34:27,599
on my end of the phone

874
00:34:29,909 --> 00:34:28,639
and

875
00:34:34,069 --> 00:34:29,919
having worked

876
00:34:36,149 --> 00:34:34,079
in wiretaps uh that's a that's a clear

877
00:34:38,310 --> 00:34:36,159
indication that somebody's tapping into

878
00:34:41,589 --> 00:34:38,320
the line on his end

879
00:34:42,310 --> 00:34:41,599
right and i suspect that he was on a on

880
00:35:35,829 --> 00:34:42,320
a

881
00:35:37,030 --> 00:35:35,839
um however

882
00:35:40,069 --> 00:35:37,040
um

883
00:35:40,870 --> 00:35:40,079
it's probably of extreme interest to

884
00:35:42,870 --> 00:35:40,880
them

885
00:35:44,790 --> 00:35:42,880
who he's talking to

886
00:35:47,030 --> 00:35:44,800
and why is he talking to them because as

887
00:35:49,270 --> 00:35:47,040
far as i know this was his first

888
00:35:50,870 --> 00:35:49,280
uh interview uh since he's been

889
00:35:52,950 --> 00:35:50,880
incarcerated since we've been doing the

890
00:35:56,550 --> 00:35:52,960
radio show

891
00:35:59,480 --> 00:35:56,560
but i think rick

892
00:36:04,069 --> 00:35:59,490
and or peter

893
00:36:08,150 --> 00:36:05,349
hello

894
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:11,510
marilyn are you here

895
00:36:18,870 --> 00:36:14,150
well she she was

896
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:23,829
down here i hit the red button

897
00:36:23,839 --> 00:36:26,470
anyway

898
00:36:31,510 --> 00:36:28,230
well we were just

899
00:36:33,270 --> 00:36:31,520
we were evaluating maryland um the um

900
00:36:35,349 --> 00:36:33,280
conversation and interview that we had

901
00:36:37,589 --> 00:36:35,359
with john ford

902
00:36:39,589 --> 00:36:37,599
and um and we were at the point where i

903
00:36:40,710 --> 00:36:39,599
was saying that i could hear a clicking

904
00:36:43,430 --> 00:36:40,720
noise

905
00:36:45,589 --> 00:36:43,440
on um on my end every once in a while i

906
00:36:48,069 --> 00:36:45,599
could hear a click which indicates to me

907
00:36:50,230 --> 00:36:48,079
that they were probably taping it and

908
00:36:51,990 --> 00:36:50,240
were extremely interested in who john

909
00:36:53,990 --> 00:36:52,000
ford is talking to

910
00:36:56,150 --> 00:36:54,000
and why is he talking to him you know

911
00:36:58,550 --> 00:36:56,160
outside of the facility let him talk a

912
00:37:01,109 --> 00:36:58,560
lot longer than what he indicated when

913
00:37:03,030 --> 00:37:01,119
we first got on

914
00:37:05,190 --> 00:37:03,040
you know he said he only had he could

915
00:37:06,230 --> 00:37:05,200
talk maybe 10 minutes or so

916
00:37:08,750 --> 00:37:06,240
and

917
00:37:10,710 --> 00:37:08,760
gosh how long was the the conversation

918
00:37:13,510 --> 00:37:10,720
27 minutes

919
00:37:15,829 --> 00:37:13,520
20 28 minutes i think is that how we as

920
00:37:18,069 --> 00:37:15,839
long as we had him on there yes

921
00:37:20,310 --> 00:37:18,079
so they let him

922
00:37:22,550 --> 00:37:20,320
talk and talk and talk and talk

923
00:37:25,109 --> 00:37:22,560
uh which was very surprising to me

924
00:37:26,390 --> 00:37:25,119
because i i really expected just a very

925
00:37:27,750 --> 00:37:26,400
short

926
00:37:29,589 --> 00:37:27,760
interview with him yeah i didn't think

927
00:37:32,550 --> 00:37:29,599
we i didn't think we'd get that long and

928
00:37:34,550 --> 00:37:32,560
and uh yeah neutron i saw you in chat

929
00:37:36,550 --> 00:37:34,560
they're probably listening to this show

930
00:37:38,870 --> 00:37:36,560
too knowing that this is was going to be

931
00:37:40,630 --> 00:37:38,880
the topic of conversation and that we

932
00:37:42,710 --> 00:37:40,640
were going to play

933
00:37:44,630 --> 00:37:42,720
uh the interview with john absolutely

934
00:37:46,310 --> 00:37:44,640
i'm sure they're they're logged into it

935
00:37:47,670 --> 00:37:46,320
they'd be a fool not to

936
00:37:50,230 --> 00:37:47,680
yes

937
00:37:52,950 --> 00:37:50,240
well yeah i'd be willing to bet a lot of

938
00:37:55,990 --> 00:37:52,960
people are surprised at how lucid john

939
00:37:57,990 --> 00:37:56,000
sounds i heard parts of the interview

940
00:38:00,230 --> 00:37:58,000
uh this first time i heard it and i

941
00:38:02,310 --> 00:38:00,240
speak with him almost every day but

942
00:38:04,790 --> 00:38:02,320
to hear him coming you know over a cell

943
00:38:06,069 --> 00:38:04,800
phone which is rare you know i usually

944
00:38:07,990 --> 00:38:06,079
go landline

945
00:38:10,630 --> 00:38:08,000
and you know you're

946
00:38:11,589 --> 00:38:10,640
answering questions he's dead on he's

947
00:38:12,950 --> 00:38:11,599
not

948
00:38:14,790 --> 00:38:12,960
you know lagging

949
00:38:16,069 --> 00:38:14,800
he was ready to answer those questions

950
00:38:18,390 --> 00:38:16,079
there was no stumbling over the

951
00:38:20,550 --> 00:38:18,400
questions he he

952
00:38:23,430 --> 00:38:20,560
was there was no pauses he was very

953
00:38:25,910 --> 00:38:23,440
lucid in everything that he talked about

954
00:38:28,630 --> 00:38:25,920
he he knew exactly

955
00:38:32,470 --> 00:38:28,640
how to answer something and

956
00:38:35,349 --> 00:38:32,480
um you know it's when oh he was very

957
00:38:38,230 --> 00:38:35,359
he was very well spoken um

958
00:38:40,150 --> 00:38:38,240
yeah he i mean his train of thoughts uh

959
00:38:42,069 --> 00:38:40,160
followed i mean it was easy to follow

960
00:38:43,750 --> 00:38:42,079
along his train of thought and what he

961
00:38:44,870 --> 00:38:43,760
was uh the points that he was trying to

962
00:38:47,109 --> 00:38:44,880
make

963
00:38:47,829 --> 00:38:47,119
i didn't find anything and i i just want

964
00:38:49,270 --> 00:38:47,839
to

965
00:38:50,069 --> 00:38:49,280
make this real quick i

966
00:38:50,790 --> 00:38:50,079
you know

967
00:38:52,630 --> 00:38:50,800
the

968
00:38:54,790 --> 00:38:52,640
district that i worked in had a mental

969
00:38:56,310 --> 00:38:54,800
health facility and i probably got

970
00:38:58,550 --> 00:38:56,320
dispatched there

971
00:39:00,710 --> 00:38:58,560
oh maybe two or three times out of a

972
00:39:03,030 --> 00:39:00,720
four day work shift and i'm sure our

973
00:39:04,950 --> 00:39:03,040
department was there every day even on

974
00:39:07,510 --> 00:39:04,960
my days off and had to deal

975
00:39:10,390 --> 00:39:07,520
with a number of uh delusional

976
00:39:12,550 --> 00:39:10,400
schizophrenic uh personalities that

977
00:39:13,990 --> 00:39:12,560
either they didn't take their medication

978
00:39:15,750 --> 00:39:14,000
or they were coming in for help or

979
00:39:18,310 --> 00:39:15,760
whatever the case may be

980
00:39:19,829 --> 00:39:18,320
and i didn't find john

981
00:39:21,990 --> 00:39:19,839
to be

982
00:39:25,670 --> 00:39:22,000
delusional or schizophrenic or any of

983
00:39:28,390 --> 00:39:25,680
that no no very very loose very saying

984
00:39:31,190 --> 00:39:28,400
and yeah not at all he's never ever

985
00:39:32,630 --> 00:39:31,200
displayed anything that was delusional

986
00:39:33,990 --> 00:39:32,640
to to me

987
00:39:35,990 --> 00:39:34,000
and

988
00:39:37,589 --> 00:39:36,000
those letters that we sent to his new

989
00:39:39,829 --> 00:39:37,599
attorney

990
00:39:42,230 --> 00:39:39,839
you've seen him ken that

991
00:39:45,030 --> 00:39:42,240
he is not delusional even back in the

992
00:39:48,150 --> 00:39:45,040
90s when he started writing to elaine

993
00:39:49,670 --> 00:39:48,160
all the way up till 2007.

994
00:39:52,310 --> 00:39:49,680
yeah i brought that up before you came

995
00:39:54,630 --> 00:39:52,320
back on marilyn is that you know the the

996
00:39:57,109 --> 00:39:54,640
no letters that he wrote to elaine

997
00:39:58,310 --> 00:39:57,119
douglas and that was one of the clues

998
00:40:00,150 --> 00:39:58,320
for me

999
00:40:01,990 --> 00:40:00,160
and and it was obvious that elaine

1000
00:40:05,349 --> 00:40:02,000
douglas knew that he was

1001
00:40:06,710 --> 00:40:05,359
uh lucid insane also because of the the

1002
00:40:08,710 --> 00:40:06,720
conversations

1003
00:40:11,510 --> 00:40:08,720
communications that they were having

1004
00:40:13,589 --> 00:40:11,520
back and forth yeah yeah

1005
00:40:16,870 --> 00:40:13,599
so

1006
00:40:20,069 --> 00:40:16,880
i mean this this whole scenario

1007
00:40:21,750 --> 00:40:20,079
sucks and and smacks of uh

1008
00:40:23,670 --> 00:40:21,760
of uh

1009
00:40:25,349 --> 00:40:23,680
well it does it stink it stinks what

1010
00:40:28,550 --> 00:40:25,359
they did to him

1011
00:40:31,430 --> 00:40:28,560
you know maybe maybe his first attorney

1012
00:40:33,430 --> 00:40:31,440
thought really believed that he was only

1013
00:40:36,069 --> 00:40:33,440
going to be there maybe two or three

1014
00:40:38,390 --> 00:40:36,079
years and then he would be out and he

1015
00:40:41,670 --> 00:40:38,400
wouldn't lose his pension because he

1016
00:40:43,589 --> 00:40:41,680
hadn't been convicted of a crime but i

1017
00:40:46,069 --> 00:40:43,599
honestly think if he had just agreed to

1018
00:40:49,349 --> 00:40:46,079
go ahead and go to trial they would not

1019
00:40:50,470 --> 00:40:49,359
have had enough evidence to show that he

1020
00:40:53,349 --> 00:40:50,480
you know

1021
00:40:57,829 --> 00:40:53,359
well that that comes down to his initial

1022
00:40:59,349 --> 00:40:57,839
attorney rausch yes uh okay and there's

1023
00:41:02,309 --> 00:40:59,359
something

1024
00:41:05,190 --> 00:41:02,319
in that whole relationship that uh is

1025
00:41:07,430 --> 00:41:05,200
not right as far as i'm concerned right

1026
00:41:09,910 --> 00:41:07,440
yeah you know he's he's friends

1027
00:41:12,710 --> 00:41:09,920
obviously with powell powell spoke with

1028
00:41:14,950 --> 00:41:12,720
him directly yeah i mean you know

1029
00:41:17,670 --> 00:41:14,960
you have a you have a somebody that's

1030
00:41:20,069 --> 00:41:17,680
accused of uh conspiracy to commit

1031
00:41:22,390 --> 00:41:20,079
murder and you have one of the alleged

1032
00:41:24,630 --> 00:41:22,400
victims speaking to the attorney for

1033
00:41:27,030 --> 00:41:24,640
that person that's uh that's on that's

1034
00:41:28,630 --> 00:41:27,040
unheard of right and

1035
00:41:29,990 --> 00:41:28,640
he's telling make sure you make sure

1036
00:41:31,750 --> 00:41:30,000
this guy goes

1037
00:41:34,390 --> 00:41:31,760
you know gets locked in the room and

1038
00:41:36,150 --> 00:41:34,400
they throw away the room come on there's

1039
00:41:37,430 --> 00:41:36,160
something not right there and then all

1040
00:41:39,990 --> 00:41:37,440
of a sudden

1041
00:41:43,750 --> 00:41:40,000
you know uh not only is powell arrested

1042
00:41:45,109 --> 00:41:43,760
for multiple things but the other guy uh

1043
00:41:47,910 --> 00:41:45,119
fred towel

1044
00:41:50,870 --> 00:41:47,920
you know uh and uh the only one who

1045
00:41:53,430 --> 00:41:50,880
didn't uh come under federal you know

1046
00:41:56,630 --> 00:41:53,440
jurisdiction was uh

1047
00:41:57,750 --> 00:41:56,640
the former police officer uh with his

1048
00:41:59,349 --> 00:41:57,760
name uh

1049
00:42:01,270 --> 00:41:59,359
uh

1050
00:42:04,309 --> 00:42:01,280
the guy the guy from

1051
00:42:05,510 --> 00:42:04,319
brookhaven town um the third guy uh

1052
00:42:06,550 --> 00:42:05,520
gazzala

1053
00:42:08,790 --> 00:42:06,560
right

1054
00:42:10,550 --> 00:42:08,800
you know but the thing is he had to

1055
00:42:13,910 --> 00:42:10,560
leave the new york city police

1056
00:42:16,470 --> 00:42:13,920
department for cause or be subject to

1057
00:42:18,630 --> 00:42:16,480
arrests that was a long time ago granted

1058
00:42:20,550 --> 00:42:18,640
but you know he came out to long island

1059
00:42:22,309 --> 00:42:20,560
and they don't cool with crook haven for

1060
00:42:24,950 --> 00:42:22,319
nothing

1061
00:42:26,870 --> 00:42:24,960
right you know i mean he basically buys

1062
00:42:28,870 --> 00:42:26,880
and sells jobs

1063
00:42:31,109 --> 00:42:28,880
uh you know he puts people those people

1064
00:42:33,750 --> 00:42:31,119
in no-show jobs and things i mean he's

1065
00:42:35,270 --> 00:42:33,760
dead now too drawn out with them all and

1066
00:42:36,950 --> 00:42:35,280
i'm glad he did

1067
00:42:38,870 --> 00:42:36,960
marilyn brought up

1068
00:42:39,910 --> 00:42:38,880
a good point there first of all

1069
00:42:41,510 --> 00:42:39,920
in uh

1070
00:42:44,309 --> 00:42:41,520
over the years whenever i've spoken with

1071
00:42:47,190 --> 00:42:44,319
him over the phone he's always sounded

1072
00:42:48,069 --> 00:42:47,200
perfectly fine you know and and genteel

1073
00:42:50,710 --> 00:42:48,079
and

1074
00:42:52,069 --> 00:42:50,720
uh nothing threatening about him

1075
00:42:54,390 --> 00:42:52,079
whatsoever

1076
00:42:56,790 --> 00:42:54,400
uh but outspoken person

1077
00:42:58,630 --> 00:42:56,800
yeah and then uh the part that maryland

1078
00:43:00,870 --> 00:42:58,640
brought up about him

1079
00:43:02,750 --> 00:43:00,880
just throwing in the towel and going for

1080
00:43:04,470 --> 00:43:02,760
the trial well

1081
00:43:06,309 --> 00:43:04,480
unfortunately

1082
00:43:08,309 --> 00:43:06,319
you remember

1083
00:43:10,470 --> 00:43:08,319
uh some time ago when we did that

1084
00:43:11,990 --> 00:43:10,480
interview with joe masicelli

1085
00:43:17,750 --> 00:43:12,000
or

1086
00:43:18,710 --> 00:43:17,760
when you're under the gun like that and

1087
00:43:23,270 --> 00:43:18,720
you're

1088
00:43:25,030 --> 00:43:23,280
okay and then you have

1089
00:43:27,349 --> 00:43:25,040
your own trusted or

1090
00:43:28,550 --> 00:43:27,359
supposedly trusted allegedly trusted

1091
00:43:31,349 --> 00:43:28,560
friends

1092
00:43:32,470 --> 00:43:31,359
um joe mazzachelli who got interrogated

1093
00:43:34,790 --> 00:43:32,480
first

1094
00:43:36,870 --> 00:43:34,800
coming out to john and saying

1095
00:43:38,390 --> 00:43:36,880
john there's no way we can win this

1096
00:43:40,870 --> 00:43:38,400
we're screwed

1097
00:43:42,710 --> 00:43:40,880
yeah and well you know

1098
00:43:43,910 --> 00:43:42,720
what choice is john go to make at that

1099
00:43:46,470 --> 00:43:43,920
point

1100
00:43:48,550 --> 00:43:46,480
right well and then they threatened him

1101
00:43:50,150 --> 00:43:48,560
with something that was extremely

1102
00:43:52,150 --> 00:43:50,160
important to him and that was the loss

1103
00:43:54,710 --> 00:43:52,160
of his pension

1104
00:43:56,470 --> 00:43:54,720
so um yeah of course they knew that they

1105
00:43:58,230 --> 00:43:56,480
had to know that she was getting his

1106
00:44:00,710 --> 00:43:58,240
money from well he was working to

1107
00:44:02,950 --> 00:44:00,720
collect a few months ago and boom all of

1108
00:44:03,990 --> 00:44:02,960
a sudden he's collecting a disability

1109
00:44:05,829 --> 00:44:04,000
pension

1110
00:44:08,470 --> 00:44:05,839
but he's not doing anything and he was

1111
00:44:11,109 --> 00:44:08,480
legitimately injured i i

1112
00:44:13,750 --> 00:44:11,119
seen him i saw him you know before and

1113
00:44:15,270 --> 00:44:13,760
after the injury i mean he was white he

1114
00:44:17,829 --> 00:44:15,280
didn't look well

1115
00:44:20,309 --> 00:44:17,839
um you know and it had nothing to do

1116
00:44:22,870 --> 00:44:20,319
with the nervous or depressive condition

1117
00:44:25,349 --> 00:44:22,880
the guy was physically ill yeah well one

1118
00:44:26,790 --> 00:44:25,359
of them had a chair

1119
00:44:28,790 --> 00:44:26,800
and that was one of the questions and

1120
00:44:31,270 --> 00:44:28,800
i'm sorry i didn't ask it

1121
00:44:33,349 --> 00:44:31,280
uh was what kind of medication

1122
00:44:36,550 --> 00:44:33,359
do they have him on and what kind of

1123
00:44:38,470 --> 00:44:36,560
medication did they have him on if any

1124
00:44:40,790 --> 00:44:38,480
doesn't sound like to me he's on any

1125
00:44:43,190 --> 00:44:40,800
kind of psychotropic drug because of how

1126
00:44:44,710 --> 00:44:43,200
he expresses himself

1127
00:44:46,950 --> 00:44:44,720
if you know enough about people on

1128
00:44:49,589 --> 00:44:46,960
psychotropic drugs they stumble over

1129
00:44:51,910 --> 00:44:49,599
their words they can't maintain a full

1130
00:44:53,430 --> 00:44:51,920
sentence sometimes they just trail off

1131
00:44:55,750 --> 00:44:53,440
with their sentences

1132
00:44:58,550 --> 00:44:55,760
um they um

1133
00:44:59,910 --> 00:44:58,560
their concentration levels are

1134
00:45:03,990 --> 00:44:59,920
very poor

1135
00:45:10,069 --> 00:45:06,950
he's on the sparrow and uh and visceral

1136
00:45:12,390 --> 00:45:10,079
for at night uh

1137
00:45:14,390 --> 00:45:12,400
visceral is basically it's not even a

1138
00:45:15,829 --> 00:45:14,400
controlled substance it's like they give

1139
00:45:17,430 --> 00:45:15,839
it to children

1140
00:45:21,910 --> 00:45:17,440
it's basically an histamine it's

1141
00:45:25,030 --> 00:45:23,430
and but the other one is an

1142
00:45:26,870 --> 00:45:25,040
antipsychotic

1143
00:45:28,230 --> 00:45:26,880
but it's a low dose and he's been taking

1144
00:45:29,990 --> 00:45:28,240
it for years

1145
00:45:32,710 --> 00:45:30,000
and he just he feels like he has to

1146
00:45:34,790 --> 00:45:32,720
fight it you know to maintain a clear

1147
00:45:37,430 --> 00:45:34,800
head and he's doing a pretty damn good

1148
00:45:39,510 --> 00:45:37,440
job of it yeah he's not helping him it's

1149
00:45:40,390 --> 00:45:39,520
not really hurting him now at this point

1150
00:45:42,069 --> 00:45:40,400
but

1151
00:45:43,510 --> 00:45:42,079
you know i don't think it's necessary

1152
00:45:46,069 --> 00:45:43,520
that he'd be

1153
00:45:48,069 --> 00:45:46,079
made to take that if he refuses it

1154
00:45:49,990 --> 00:45:48,079
they'll just inject them with it

1155
00:45:52,950 --> 00:45:50,000
and probably a lot more

1156
00:45:53,910 --> 00:45:52,960
yeah so he just belong and plays their

1157
00:45:56,470 --> 00:45:53,920
game

1158
00:46:00,309 --> 00:45:56,480
and obeys orders and you know he's

1159
00:46:02,550 --> 00:46:00,319
waiting for his freedom and it's at hand

1160
00:46:04,470 --> 00:46:02,560
the other part of this whole thing is i

1161
00:46:05,349 --> 00:46:04,480
find it interesting

1162
00:46:07,750 --> 00:46:05,359
that

1163
00:46:09,750 --> 00:46:07,760
each time he has an evaluation and his

1164
00:46:10,950 --> 00:46:09,760
evaluations come up once every two years

1165
00:46:14,550 --> 00:46:10,960
correct

1166
00:46:17,589 --> 00:46:14,560
so he's you know

1167
00:46:19,670 --> 00:46:17,599
yes so in the 21 years

1168
00:46:21,030 --> 00:46:19,680
he's been incarcerated

1169
00:46:22,230 --> 00:46:21,040
he's had

1170
00:46:25,589 --> 00:46:22,240
numerous

1171
00:46:29,910 --> 00:46:25,599
um evaluations and they always come back

1172
00:46:32,710 --> 00:46:29,920
to saying the same thing and um

1173
00:46:34,309 --> 00:46:32,720
this last one that it was an attorney

1174
00:46:35,190 --> 00:46:34,319
that was uh

1175
00:46:37,109 --> 00:46:35,200
uh

1176
00:46:40,470 --> 00:46:37,119
was it reno that got brought in this

1177
00:46:44,710 --> 00:46:40,480
other attorney i can't remember you know

1178
00:46:46,630 --> 00:46:44,720
uh well we had a uh we had uh let's see

1179
00:46:50,309 --> 00:46:46,640
um uh

1180
00:46:51,750 --> 00:46:50,319
uh rosalie andrea rosali yeah and when

1181
00:46:54,309 --> 00:46:51,760
she messed up

1182
00:46:56,470 --> 00:46:54,319
on boxing something in like you know

1183
00:46:57,430 --> 00:46:56,480
after midnight on the day that the law

1184
00:47:00,390 --> 00:46:57,440
changed

1185
00:47:03,109 --> 00:47:00,400
uh john got all upset about it he found

1186
00:47:04,950 --> 00:47:03,119
i don't know where he found reno from he

1187
00:47:07,109 --> 00:47:04,960
got reno on the case

1188
00:47:09,030 --> 00:47:07,119
then reno has just been dragging his

1189
00:47:11,829 --> 00:47:09,040
feet and kind of just playing along with

1190
00:47:14,150 --> 00:47:11,839
the mental health court game

1191
00:47:17,030 --> 00:47:14,160
and john's tired of it and

1192
00:47:19,109 --> 00:47:17,040
you know we got proactive and we got an

1193
00:47:20,309 --> 00:47:19,119
attorney that's really hustling right

1194
00:47:21,829 --> 00:47:20,319
now you know

1195
00:47:24,309 --> 00:47:21,839
well

1196
00:47:26,950 --> 00:47:24,319
the last psychiatrist that he saw said

1197
00:47:28,309 --> 00:47:26,960
he was not a danger you know

1198
00:47:30,550 --> 00:47:28,319
which means

1199
00:47:32,150 --> 00:47:30,560
his new report does the same thing

1200
00:47:33,109 --> 00:47:32,160
yes

1201
00:47:34,309 --> 00:47:33,119
so

1202
00:47:37,750 --> 00:47:34,319
reports

1203
00:47:40,710 --> 00:47:37,760
these do testify as well

1204
00:47:42,150 --> 00:47:40,720
oh you know um they have a report they

1205
00:47:44,309 --> 00:47:42,160
know he's gonna testify he's not

1206
00:47:45,750 --> 00:47:44,319
listening there's no secret

1207
00:47:47,670 --> 00:47:45,760
you know well that's what they said

1208
00:47:50,470 --> 00:47:47,680
about hinckley that he's no longer a

1209
00:47:53,109 --> 00:47:50,480
danger to society and they let him out

1210
00:47:54,710 --> 00:47:53,119
so and i think he was diagnosed the same

1211
00:47:57,430 --> 00:47:54,720
as john as a

1212
00:47:58,390 --> 00:47:57,440
delusional psychotic um

1213
00:48:00,790 --> 00:47:58,400
so

1214
00:48:04,309 --> 00:48:00,800
why isn't john out

1215
00:48:06,230 --> 00:48:04,319
well he went to crime and admitted to it

1216
00:48:08,790 --> 00:48:06,240
john didn't commit a crime and mood

1217
00:48:11,589 --> 00:48:08,800
admit to being mentally ill

1218
00:48:13,589 --> 00:48:11,599
all right and i think peter moon a

1219
00:48:15,109 --> 00:48:13,599
couple of times said just play you know

1220
00:48:17,510 --> 00:48:15,119
he should he should tell him what they

1221
00:48:19,270 --> 00:48:17,520
want to hear okay

1222
00:48:22,309 --> 00:48:19,280
um and

1223
00:48:25,109 --> 00:48:22,319
john is like a very principled man

1224
00:48:27,829 --> 00:48:25,119
i i know principles principles can come

1225
00:48:30,549 --> 00:48:27,839
you know you can go to extremes

1226
00:48:32,470 --> 00:48:30,559
but i was willing to to do something

1227
00:48:35,990 --> 00:48:32,480
very similar uh

1228
00:48:37,990 --> 00:48:36,000
in the 1980s entering a divorced custody

1229
00:48:40,710 --> 00:48:38,000
hearing and so forth i chose to go to

1230
00:48:42,710 --> 00:48:40,720
jail rather than pay my drug addicted

1231
00:48:44,309 --> 00:48:42,720
wife child support now that's a whole

1232
00:48:45,829 --> 00:48:44,319
other issue but the thing is i can

1233
00:48:48,549 --> 00:48:45,839
understand

1234
00:48:49,910 --> 00:48:48,559
that john would not want to say okay

1235
00:48:51,750 --> 00:48:49,920
i'll sign the paper saying it was

1236
00:48:53,190 --> 00:48:51,760
mentally ill but i really wasn't he

1237
00:48:55,190 --> 00:48:53,200
won't do that

1238
00:48:56,630 --> 00:48:55,200
okay he won't say that there's anything

1239
00:48:58,870 --> 00:48:56,640
wrong with him and there isn't anything

1240
00:49:01,990 --> 00:48:58,880
wrong with him i can understand that he

1241
00:49:04,790 --> 00:49:02,000
it took the plea deal and it was the

1242
00:49:06,790 --> 00:49:04,800
plea of mental uh you know

1243
00:49:08,470 --> 00:49:06,800
a mental illness plea

1244
00:49:10,309 --> 00:49:08,480
uh

1245
00:49:12,470 --> 00:49:10,319
doesn't that by

1246
00:49:14,950 --> 00:49:12,480
uh by the law

1247
00:49:17,829 --> 00:49:14,960
uh imply that he

1248
00:49:19,349 --> 00:49:17,839
that he admitted to being

1249
00:49:21,109 --> 00:49:19,359
um

1250
00:49:24,390 --> 00:49:21,119
mentally ill

1251
00:49:26,950 --> 00:49:24,400
not necessarily i don't think so um i

1252
00:49:28,390 --> 00:49:26,960
think in i think if he's declared

1253
00:49:30,150 --> 00:49:28,400
mentally ill by

1254
00:49:32,150 --> 00:49:30,160
i think i don't know if it's two or

1255
00:49:34,870 --> 00:49:32,160
three psychiatrists

1256
00:49:36,790 --> 00:49:34,880
uh they they can go in and you know his

1257
00:49:38,710 --> 00:49:36,800
attorney can go in and plead for him but

1258
00:49:41,510 --> 00:49:38,720
that doesn't necessarily mean that he

1259
00:49:43,750 --> 00:49:41,520
did that he was or that he committed a

1260
00:49:46,069 --> 00:49:43,760
crime he never admitted to doing

1261
00:49:49,109 --> 00:49:46,079
anything no he didn't have his day in

1262
00:49:50,150 --> 00:49:49,119
court he wasn't convicted by a judge a

1263
00:49:52,230 --> 00:49:50,160
jury

1264
00:49:53,829 --> 00:49:52,240
he used to sent right to the executioner

1265
00:49:54,710 --> 00:49:53,839
so to speak

1266
00:49:56,710 --> 00:49:54,720
so

1267
00:49:57,670 --> 00:49:56,720
he took a plea bargain he took a plea

1268
00:49:59,589 --> 00:49:57,680
bargain

1269
00:50:02,230 --> 00:49:59,599
uh at the advice of his attorney john

1270
00:50:05,510 --> 00:50:02,240
rouse which he was misadvised

1271
00:50:07,589 --> 00:50:05,520
but he accepted it and that is a

1272
00:50:09,270 --> 00:50:07,599
compromise of his principles right there

1273
00:50:12,470 --> 00:50:09,280
in order to avoid

1274
00:50:14,150 --> 00:50:12,480
uh the siphoning off of his social uh

1275
00:50:15,910 --> 00:50:14,160
his uh pension

1276
00:50:18,230 --> 00:50:15,920
trying to protect his pension

1277
00:50:20,309 --> 00:50:18,240
that's what my point was is that that

1278
00:50:22,870 --> 00:50:20,319
because he took the plea deal

1279
00:50:25,430 --> 00:50:22,880
um it's the basically the same thing as

1280
00:50:27,349 --> 00:50:25,440
saying that yeah i'm there's something

1281
00:50:30,230 --> 00:50:27,359
wrong with me

1282
00:50:32,710 --> 00:50:30,240
he lied about that yes and

1283
00:50:35,990 --> 00:50:32,720
so he's now in the system because he

1284
00:50:37,990 --> 00:50:36,000
lied and the only way you can live up

1285
00:50:41,190 --> 00:50:38,000
you have to live up to that lie

1286
00:50:42,309 --> 00:50:41,200
or completely countermanned the entire

1287
00:50:44,470 --> 00:50:42,319
process

1288
00:50:45,990 --> 00:50:44,480
which is not it's so easy to do because

1289
00:50:48,069 --> 00:50:46,000
he's in the system

1290
00:50:49,829 --> 00:50:48,079
he put himself in the system

1291
00:50:52,150 --> 00:50:49,839
with bad advice

1292
00:50:53,910 --> 00:50:52,160
well you know you go up between a rock

1293
00:50:57,270 --> 00:50:53,920
and a hard player what is he going to

1294
00:50:59,270 --> 00:50:57,280
choose go in front of a jury and a judge

1295
00:51:01,589 --> 00:50:59,280
until he's convicted of something he

1296
00:51:04,950 --> 00:51:01,599
loses his freedom and he loses his

1297
00:51:07,109 --> 00:51:04,960
pension or he spends what they what he

1298
00:51:09,829 --> 00:51:07,119
thought was he from a couple of months

1299
00:51:11,910 --> 00:51:09,839
to to a year and a half or two years in

1300
00:51:13,190 --> 00:51:11,920
a psychiatric facility he comes out a

1301
00:51:15,990 --> 00:51:13,200
free man

1302
00:51:18,710 --> 00:51:16,000
and he's got his pension and goes on his

1303
00:51:21,030 --> 00:51:18,720
way it was okay that gave him that seems

1304
00:51:22,710 --> 00:51:21,040
like the lesser of two evils to me

1305
00:51:24,710 --> 00:51:22,720
yeah well the way it seemed but he's

1306
00:51:25,990 --> 00:51:24,720
still not out it's it's you know in

1307
00:51:27,030 --> 00:51:26,000
other words he would have been better

1308
00:51:29,430 --> 00:51:27,040
off to be

1309
00:51:31,829 --> 00:51:29,440
gotten out and be broke then

1310
00:51:33,190 --> 00:51:31,839
be where he is now yeah in hindsight you

1311
00:51:35,510 --> 00:51:33,200
can see that

1312
00:51:37,829 --> 00:51:35,520
uh agreeing to to what his attorney

1313
00:51:38,790 --> 00:51:37,839
advised him to do was not the right

1314
00:51:40,790 --> 00:51:38,800
choice

1315
00:51:43,990 --> 00:51:40,800
but at the time the advice from his

1316
00:51:46,309 --> 00:51:44,000
attorney was take the plea deal you know

1317
00:51:48,710 --> 00:51:46,319
and and then of course then he

1318
00:51:50,390 --> 00:51:48,720
he has mazatelli that comes and says we

1319
00:51:51,270 --> 00:51:50,400
aren't going to win this

1320
00:51:52,950 --> 00:51:51,280
you know

1321
00:51:54,950 --> 00:51:52,960
and

1322
00:51:56,870 --> 00:51:54,960
it that probably affected his

1323
00:51:59,190 --> 00:51:56,880
decision-making as well

1324
00:52:01,030 --> 00:51:59,200
so well he was also being drunk so he

1325
00:52:02,069 --> 00:52:01,040
was also being drugged during this this

1326
00:52:03,910 --> 00:52:02,079
time

1327
00:52:05,750 --> 00:52:03,920
yes that's right that's a good point

1328
00:52:08,069 --> 00:52:05,760
that's a good point and massachusetts

1329
00:52:08,950 --> 00:52:08,079
was lying to him and continued to lie to

1330
00:52:11,589 --> 00:52:08,960
him

1331
00:52:13,430 --> 00:52:11,599
yeah and uh and but he wouldn't testify

1332
00:52:15,030 --> 00:52:13,440
against them

1333
00:52:16,870 --> 00:52:15,040
and they had you know they had it out

1334
00:52:18,790 --> 00:52:16,880
from chile because massachusetts did not

1335
00:52:21,109 --> 00:52:18,800
want to be known as a rat

1336
00:52:22,390 --> 00:52:21,119
did not testify against john didn't sign

1337
00:52:25,750 --> 00:52:22,400
anything

1338
00:52:27,190 --> 00:52:25,760
and it was all based on psychiatric

1339
00:52:29,190 --> 00:52:27,200
you know second and third hand

1340
00:52:31,430 --> 00:52:29,200
psychiatric testimony

1341
00:52:32,870 --> 00:52:31,440
uh and i think the documents in the

1342
00:52:35,349 --> 00:52:32,880
elaine douglas file the original

1343
00:52:37,829 --> 00:52:35,359
document am i correct he was interviewed

1344
00:52:40,630 --> 00:52:37,839
by psychiatric by a psychiatrist i think

1345
00:52:41,589 --> 00:52:40,640
more than one when he was in jail

1346
00:52:43,589 --> 00:52:41,599
right

1347
00:52:46,230 --> 00:52:43,599
i remember they they portrayed him as

1348
00:52:48,790 --> 00:52:46,240
you know having a large amount of uh

1349
00:52:51,190 --> 00:52:48,800
socks and underwear stored like as if he

1350
00:52:53,349 --> 00:52:51,200
was waiting for the apocalypse you know

1351
00:52:55,190 --> 00:52:53,359
he did have a god

1352
00:52:56,870 --> 00:52:55,200
that i mean apparently he did have a lot

1353
00:52:58,870 --> 00:52:56,880
of stuff that he stored but they were

1354
00:53:01,750 --> 00:52:58,880
saying yeah you know they were they were

1355
00:53:06,630 --> 00:53:04,230
like doing laundry

1356
00:53:09,109 --> 00:53:06,640
and he also uh

1357
00:53:11,510 --> 00:53:09,119
he also uh when he spoke to me when he

1358
00:53:13,750 --> 00:53:11,520
was in the jail he had the idea that he

1359
00:53:16,230 --> 00:53:13,760
was really gonna blow the minds of these

1360
00:53:19,349 --> 00:53:16,240
shrinks by telling them about ufos and

1361
00:53:21,349 --> 00:53:19,359
really opening their minds

1362
00:53:23,430 --> 00:53:21,359
he didn't realize he misestimated his

1363
00:53:27,109 --> 00:53:23,440
audience

1364
00:53:30,309 --> 00:53:27,119
they just treated him as a looney tune

1365
00:53:31,990 --> 00:53:30,319
yeah seriously seriously and i think

1366
00:53:33,910 --> 00:53:32,000
they you know they they picked him as a

1367
00:53:35,990 --> 00:53:33,920
skit as a scapegoat

1368
00:53:37,349 --> 00:53:36,000
probably because of that

1369
00:53:39,670 --> 00:53:37,359
they could they could point to him and

1370
00:53:41,510 --> 00:53:39,680
say hey this guy believes in ufos he

1371
00:53:44,230 --> 00:53:41,520
doesn't only believe in him he chases

1372
00:53:45,750 --> 00:53:44,240
them down he interviews people that say

1373
00:53:47,750 --> 00:53:45,760
that they saw them

1374
00:53:51,109 --> 00:53:47,760
so you know right away

1375
00:53:52,470 --> 00:53:51,119
his character is suspect justify that

1376
00:53:53,670 --> 00:53:52,480
back along

1377
00:53:58,069 --> 00:53:53,680
right

1378
00:54:02,230 --> 00:53:58,079
you a question

1379
00:54:05,270 --> 00:54:02,240
little bit late i was at the movies

1380
00:54:09,349 --> 00:54:05,280
and i i came in uh did you did john

1381
00:54:12,309 --> 00:54:09,359
participate in this show already yeah

1382
00:54:15,349 --> 00:54:12,319
28 minutes 28 minutes of uh of uh an

1383
00:54:16,950 --> 00:54:15,359
interview between john ken storch and

1384
00:54:19,510 --> 00:54:16,960
marilyn carlson

1385
00:54:21,910 --> 00:54:19,520
and um marilyn called me up i set it up

1386
00:54:23,990 --> 00:54:21,920
with john i told her to call maryland

1387
00:54:25,750 --> 00:54:24,000
they went on a three-way connection and

1388
00:54:27,829 --> 00:54:25,760
he was able to stay on instead of the

1389
00:54:32,069 --> 00:54:27,839
usual 10 to 15 minutes

1390
00:54:34,069 --> 00:54:33,349
something like that

1391
00:54:35,670 --> 00:54:34,079
yeah

1392
00:54:37,109 --> 00:54:35,680
they played that that was the first half

1393
00:54:40,710 --> 00:54:37,119
hour of the show

1394
00:54:43,270 --> 00:54:40,720
i sorry i have said on skype well i have

1395
00:54:45,270 --> 00:54:43,280
we have it um in dropbox probably

1396
00:54:46,790 --> 00:54:45,280
inception radio's got it too inception

1397
00:54:50,150 --> 00:54:46,800
radio has it

1398
00:54:51,990 --> 00:54:50,160
joe has it um and so

1399
00:54:53,750 --> 00:54:52,000
um

1400
00:54:55,990 --> 00:54:53,760
i mean we could joke and email it to you

1401
00:54:57,109 --> 00:54:56,000
if he's got your email address

1402
00:54:58,150 --> 00:54:57,119
so

1403
00:55:00,870 --> 00:54:58,160
okay

1404
00:55:03,109 --> 00:55:00,880
yeah joe and i communicate on facebook

1405
00:55:04,950 --> 00:55:03,119
uh it was interesting

1406
00:55:06,549 --> 00:55:04,960
in the interview was

1407
00:55:09,589 --> 00:55:06,559
you know we've been kind of going down

1408
00:55:10,870 --> 00:55:09,599
this this railroad track about illegal

1409
00:55:13,750 --> 00:55:10,880
dumping

1410
00:55:16,630 --> 00:55:13,760
and uh that and corruption and those

1411
00:55:18,870 --> 00:55:16,640
sort of things and yet john

1412
00:55:20,710 --> 00:55:18,880
in the interview said no

1413
00:55:23,109 --> 00:55:20,720
he knew nothing about he knew that

1414
00:55:25,349 --> 00:55:23,119
nothing about corruption so i found that

1415
00:55:26,630 --> 00:55:25,359
very interesting but yet if you look at

1416
00:55:28,870 --> 00:55:26,640
his statement to the press it

1417
00:55:29,990 --> 00:55:28,880
contradicts that

1418
00:55:35,030 --> 00:55:30,000
yeah

1419
00:55:37,510 --> 00:55:35,040
well he knew there was something going

1420
00:55:38,390 --> 00:55:37,520
on he couldn't be specific about it

1421
00:55:40,710 --> 00:55:38,400
yeah

1422
00:55:43,750 --> 00:55:40,720
i was just like

1423
00:55:45,990 --> 00:55:43,760
land deals and so forth yeah that was

1424
00:55:47,910 --> 00:55:46,000
after the fact he knew about it and you

1425
00:55:49,910 --> 00:55:47,920
know at the time he didn't but it

1426
00:55:52,470 --> 00:55:49,920
pointed fingers at a lot of different

1427
00:55:54,230 --> 00:55:52,480
people for a lot of different things

1428
00:55:55,670 --> 00:55:54,240
and they didn't know what

1429
00:55:58,390 --> 00:55:55,680
and what he didn't know

1430
00:56:00,549 --> 00:55:58,400
well i i maintained that

1431
00:56:02,390 --> 00:56:00,559
you know john was involved in something

1432
00:56:03,990 --> 00:56:02,400
and and i and i still believe this i

1433
00:56:07,349 --> 00:56:04,000
think he got involved in something that

1434
00:56:10,069 --> 00:56:07,359
he had no idea what it was and and and

1435
00:56:13,270 --> 00:56:10,079
the powers to be on the other end didn't

1436
00:56:16,549 --> 00:56:13,280
know that he didn't know he's out there

1437
00:56:18,630 --> 00:56:16,559
in um on you know walking around

1438
00:56:20,630 --> 00:56:18,640
interviewing people and talking to

1439
00:56:22,230 --> 00:56:20,640
people about this fire

1440
00:56:25,270 --> 00:56:22,240
that took place

1441
00:56:27,030 --> 00:56:25,280
and and and it was a ufo crash and it's

1442
00:56:28,710 --> 00:56:27,040
drawing attention it drew national

1443
00:56:31,190 --> 00:56:28,720
attention by the way

1444
00:56:33,829 --> 00:56:31,200
okay and so those

1445
00:56:36,230 --> 00:56:33,839
criminal element whether it was the mob

1446
00:56:38,230 --> 00:56:36,240
or a combination of corrupt corrupt

1447
00:56:40,230 --> 00:56:38,240
politicians and the mob on the illegal

1448
00:56:42,710 --> 00:56:40,240
dump he might not have known about it

1449
00:56:45,670 --> 00:56:42,720
but they didn't know that

1450
00:56:46,789 --> 00:56:45,680
you you know what he goes to the site

1451
00:56:48,549 --> 00:56:46,799
right

1452
00:56:50,150 --> 00:56:48,559
he was close to the site he had a

1453
00:56:52,309 --> 00:56:50,160
guidance counselor he had a team of

1454
00:56:54,309 --> 00:56:52,319
investigators out there they didn't know

1455
00:56:56,309 --> 00:56:54,319
what he did or didn't know

1456
00:56:58,950 --> 00:56:56,319
and that's why they took his notes and

1457
00:57:00,630 --> 00:56:58,960
his files and they wanted rap sheets if

1458
00:57:01,910 --> 00:57:00,640
you recall rap sheets is what they were

1459
00:57:04,150 --> 00:57:01,920
looking for i think it was in the

1460
00:57:06,710 --> 00:57:04,160
warning

1461
00:57:08,230 --> 00:57:06,720
about rap criminal histories yeah it was

1462
00:57:09,750 --> 00:57:08,240
it was criminal they they worded his

1463
00:57:13,030 --> 00:57:09,760
criminal histories

1464
00:57:15,910 --> 00:57:13,040
had on other people or thought he had on

1465
00:57:18,710 --> 00:57:15,920
other people i don't know that he did

1466
00:57:20,710 --> 00:57:18,720
i don't think that i don't

1467
00:57:22,870 --> 00:57:20,720
i have never seen anything like that

1468
00:57:25,430 --> 00:57:22,880
well we don't and we don't know because

1469
00:57:26,470 --> 00:57:25,440
his files were confiscated and who knows

1470
00:57:29,109 --> 00:57:26,480
where they are they may have been

1471
00:57:31,190 --> 00:57:29,119
destroyed or they may have been put in a

1472
00:57:34,069 --> 00:57:31,200
in a safe place somewhere but we don't

1473
00:57:36,950 --> 00:57:34,079
know what john had and i and i

1474
00:57:39,030 --> 00:57:36,960
maintained that's why they took his ufo

1475
00:57:40,710 --> 00:57:39,040
files they weren't interested in ufos

1476
00:57:42,710 --> 00:57:40,720
they were interested in what he knew and

1477
00:57:44,789 --> 00:57:42,720
what he had found out and who he was

1478
00:57:46,950 --> 00:57:44,799
talking to yeah

1479
00:57:49,030 --> 00:57:46,960
he was targeted he was he was obviously

1480
00:57:50,789 --> 00:57:49,040
targeted uh and

1481
00:57:52,390 --> 00:57:50,799
set up and he was because he was

1482
00:57:55,270 --> 00:57:52,400
considered an enemy

1483
00:57:57,990 --> 00:57:55,280
of john powell and that john powell was

1484
00:57:59,990 --> 00:57:58,000
working against him as was catterson and

1485
00:58:02,390 --> 00:58:00,000
any in all of their minions

1486
00:58:05,589 --> 00:58:02,400
i really know the write-ups in our

1487
00:58:08,630 --> 00:58:05,599
elaine douglas's files on john

1488
00:58:11,190 --> 00:58:08,640
uh those republicans in that county were

1489
00:58:13,270 --> 00:58:11,200
not very happy with him because uh you

1490
00:58:16,390 --> 00:58:13,280
know his mom i guess ran for some

1491
00:58:17,990 --> 00:58:16,400
republican office john was a republican

1492
00:58:21,030 --> 00:58:18,000
conservative party he was involved in

1493
00:58:23,829 --> 00:58:21,040
the service yeah but he but he raised he

1494
00:58:25,270 --> 00:58:23,839
raised a lot of cane with him yes he did

1495
00:58:27,750 --> 00:58:25,280
so then that could have been some kind

1496
00:58:29,750 --> 00:58:27,760
of vendetta there too well he was viewed

1497
00:58:32,710 --> 00:58:29,760
i mean a vendetta this was not about a

1498
00:58:35,270 --> 00:58:32,720
vendetta this was about damage control

1499
00:58:38,710 --> 00:58:35,280
and and eliminating him you know as a

1500
00:58:40,549 --> 00:58:38,720
target yeah it was not a vendetta driven

1501
00:58:42,309 --> 00:58:40,559
it was you know he was a potential

1502
00:58:43,270 --> 00:58:42,319
danger to these characters

1503
00:58:45,030 --> 00:58:43,280
and

1504
00:58:47,430 --> 00:58:45,040
you know we do know excuse me we do know

1505
00:58:50,150 --> 00:58:47,440
that john powell had mob connections

1506
00:58:52,309 --> 00:58:50,160
because of the conviction he later uh

1507
00:58:55,109 --> 00:58:52,319
endured and so

1508
00:58:56,950 --> 00:58:55,119
the one thing is while he had the d.a

1509
00:58:58,710 --> 00:58:56,960
and the john and john powell working

1510
00:59:02,230 --> 00:58:58,720
against him who were both in collusion

1511
00:59:05,030 --> 00:59:02,240
together and john rouse was tied to um

1512
00:59:06,789 --> 00:59:05,040
john powell they later turned up as you

1513
00:59:07,829 --> 00:59:06,799
know involved

1514
00:59:09,670 --> 00:59:07,839
uh

1515
00:59:10,789 --> 00:59:09,680
together with the department highway

1516
00:59:13,030 --> 00:59:10,799
department

1517
00:59:14,470 --> 00:59:13,040
and contracts and whatnot but

1518
00:59:18,549 --> 00:59:14,480
mazzicelli

1519
00:59:19,750 --> 00:59:18,559
also profiles as a uh

1520
00:59:20,950 --> 00:59:19,760
informant

1521
00:59:23,829 --> 00:59:20,960
and

1522
00:59:25,829 --> 00:59:23,839
uh agent provocateur who's setting up

1523
00:59:27,990 --> 00:59:25,839
john if you read john's whole thing

1524
00:59:30,069 --> 00:59:28,000
telling him he has diplomatic immunity

1525
00:59:35,030 --> 00:59:30,079
and telling him he's from the mossad now

1526
00:59:35,040 --> 00:59:41,589
but john apparently believed it

1527
00:59:44,230 --> 00:59:42,870
every day

1528
00:59:46,230 --> 00:59:44,240
joe is living there you have to

1529
00:59:48,470 --> 00:59:46,240
understand that joe is living in john's

1530
00:59:50,150 --> 00:59:48,480
house he's spoon feeding him bits and

1531
00:59:52,390 --> 00:59:50,160
pieces of information

1532
00:59:54,390 --> 00:59:52,400
he's right about a bunch of stuff

1533
00:59:57,430 --> 00:59:54,400
and he's completely

1534
00:59:59,750 --> 00:59:57,440
he's complete [\h__\h] on this okay but

1535
01:00:02,470 --> 00:59:59,760
he was right about other stuff

1536
01:00:03,430 --> 01:00:02,480
okay so john had a tendency to believe

1537
01:00:05,589 --> 01:00:03,440
him

1538
01:00:07,589 --> 01:00:05,599
all right against everybody he still

1539
01:00:09,349 --> 01:00:07,599
believes that that mazzachelli was a

1540
01:00:11,430 --> 01:00:09,359
part of the mossad

1541
01:00:14,390 --> 01:00:11,440
well if he if he was

1542
01:00:16,789 --> 01:00:14,400
being he was an asset to them uh he was

1543
01:00:18,630 --> 01:00:16,799
an asset to somebody uh

1544
01:00:20,789 --> 01:00:18,640
somebody said he was a police informant

1545
01:00:22,549 --> 01:00:20,799
he got very hostile to me when i asked

1546
01:00:24,630 --> 01:00:22,559
him the question i didn't tell him he

1547
01:00:25,750 --> 01:00:24,640
was i asked him the question and he

1548
01:00:26,630 --> 01:00:25,760
threatened me

1549
01:00:29,109 --> 01:00:26,640
uh

1550
01:00:30,630 --> 01:00:29,119
i remember that i remember that and he

1551
01:00:33,190 --> 01:00:30,640
also wouldn't give me a direct answer

1552
01:00:35,829 --> 01:00:33,200
about the guns or about that guy arthur

1553
01:00:37,270 --> 01:00:35,839
aruba who he sell the guns to

1554
01:00:39,670 --> 01:00:37,280
right okay

1555
01:00:41,750 --> 01:00:39,680
um you know and how he was tied in i

1556
01:00:44,390 --> 01:00:41,760
mean he lived in mandeville on north

1557
01:00:46,390 --> 01:00:44,400
street so did this guy koch

1558
01:00:48,789 --> 01:00:46,400
who who was working

1559
01:00:52,069 --> 01:00:48,799
he worked he was at this assistant

1560
01:00:54,309 --> 01:00:52,079
district attorney okay so riva got

1561
01:00:56,150 --> 01:00:54,319
arrested the not the serial numbers for

1562
01:00:58,150 --> 01:00:56,160
john's gun are obviously they're on

1563
01:01:01,270 --> 01:00:58,160
there or on the guns

1564
01:01:02,549 --> 01:01:01,280
so it comes back to john and joe is in

1565
01:01:05,829 --> 01:01:02,559
the house

1566
01:01:06,870 --> 01:01:05,839
and he he's introduced to koch by arthur

1567
01:01:09,270 --> 01:01:06,880
riva

1568
01:01:10,549 --> 01:01:09,280
i mean they live two three houses away

1569
01:01:12,870 --> 01:01:10,559
from each other

1570
01:01:15,270 --> 01:01:12,880
and he lets the guy in

1571
01:01:16,870 --> 01:01:15,280
and they start recording he

1572
01:01:18,470 --> 01:01:16,880
starts saying what about this guy pal

1573
01:01:20,470 --> 01:01:18,480
what about this guy towel what about

1574
01:01:21,910 --> 01:01:20,480
this guy uh

1575
01:01:23,109 --> 01:01:21,920
yeah etc

1576
01:01:27,589 --> 01:01:23,119
yeah

1577
01:01:29,910 --> 01:01:27,599
believe that you're gonna get radiant

1578
01:01:31,990 --> 01:01:29,920
from some place and put it in toothpaste

1579
01:01:34,230 --> 01:01:32,000
and sugar packets and then sneak into

1580
01:01:36,950 --> 01:01:34,240
somebody's house i mean for god's sakes

1581
01:01:39,349 --> 01:01:36,960
john is an expert marksman he could blow

1582
01:01:41,589 --> 01:01:39,359
these people away from half a mile away

1583
01:01:43,109 --> 01:01:41,599
nobody would know about it i just saved

1584
01:01:46,789 --> 01:01:43,119
hundreds of dollars by switching to

1585
01:01:48,309 --> 01:01:46,799
geico i'm so happy i feel like i can fly

1586
01:01:49,750 --> 01:01:48,319
disclaimer you will not be able to fly

1587
01:01:51,109 --> 01:01:49,760
by switching to geico this is against

1588
01:01:52,230 --> 01:01:51,119
the laws of physics and nature if you

1589
01:01:53,349 --> 01:01:52,240
find yourself flying please seek

1590
01:01:54,870 --> 01:01:53,359
professional and or medical help

1591
01:01:56,230 --> 01:01:54,880
immediately in the unlikely event you

1592
01:01:58,230 --> 01:01:56,240
find yourself flying you might be a

1593
01:01:59,829 --> 01:01:58,240
superhero or a pigeon or a superhero

1594
01:02:01,349 --> 01:01:59,839
named pidgewoman who was bitten by a

1595
01:02:03,030 --> 01:02:01,359
radioactive pigeon if you are indeed

1596
01:02:04,230 --> 01:02:03,040
pitch woman geico retains all licensing

1597
01:02:05,750 --> 01:02:04,240
publishing rights in the event pidge

1598
01:02:08,069 --> 01:02:05,760
woman the movie becomes a top-grossing

1599
01:02:11,190 --> 01:02:08,079
hollywood blockbuster geico 15 minutes

1600
01:02:13,030 --> 01:02:11,200
could save you 15 or more

1601
01:02:15,190 --> 01:02:13,040
and he didn't have to say anything to

1602
01:02:16,470 --> 01:02:15,200
anyone and but that's not what he was

1603
01:02:18,870 --> 01:02:16,480
accused of

1604
01:02:20,710 --> 01:02:18,880
okay they've spoon-fed this pile of

1605
01:02:23,270 --> 01:02:20,720
horse horseshit to people and it was

1606
01:02:24,470 --> 01:02:23,280
believed because of the way it was it

1607
01:02:28,230 --> 01:02:24,480
was fed and the same thing with

1608
01:02:30,950 --> 01:02:28,240
masachelli it was he spoon fed john

1609
01:02:31,990 --> 01:02:30,960
long enough and you know and direct

1610
01:02:34,069 --> 01:02:32,000
enough

1611
01:02:35,349 --> 01:02:34,079
bad information and john believes it

1612
01:02:36,789 --> 01:02:35,359
probably does

1613
01:02:38,950 --> 01:02:36,799
to this day i didn't hear the whole

1614
01:02:41,670 --> 01:02:38,960
interview it does based on our our

1615
01:02:43,750 --> 01:02:41,680
information because uh ken asked him a

1616
01:02:47,589 --> 01:02:43,760
question about mazzachelli

1617
01:02:50,470 --> 01:02:47,599
and uh he said he he said in in the

1618
01:02:55,109 --> 01:02:50,480
recent interview that mazzicelli was the

1619
01:02:59,270 --> 01:02:56,710
moment

1620
01:03:02,470 --> 01:02:59,280
because john you can't you can't say

1621
01:03:05,589 --> 01:03:02,480
somebody is an agent of the cia or the

1622
01:03:08,470 --> 01:03:05,599
mossad or anybody else unless you can

1623
01:03:10,390 --> 01:03:08,480
back it up you can suspect them you can

1624
01:03:12,710 --> 01:03:10,400
say you were told and he does not make

1625
01:03:14,549 --> 01:03:12,720
this delineation and this is a big

1626
01:03:23,029 --> 01:03:14,559
problem with him

1627
01:03:27,910 --> 01:03:25,750
i want to ask you a question

1628
01:03:29,990 --> 01:03:27,920
do you know anything about

1629
01:03:32,870 --> 01:03:30,000
john had at one time said to me that

1630
01:03:35,349 --> 01:03:32,880
there was a shootout behind his house

1631
01:03:36,230 --> 01:03:35,359
is that correct

1632
01:03:38,069 --> 01:03:36,240
joe

1633
01:03:41,029 --> 01:03:38,079
i've heard the story

1634
01:03:43,270 --> 01:03:41,039
yeah okay but i don't know if there was

1635
01:03:46,069 --> 01:03:43,280
a shootout or not or if they were just

1636
01:03:48,309 --> 01:03:46,079
testing the fireworks out at the uh

1637
01:03:50,309 --> 01:03:48,319
i mean right behind this house they had

1638
01:03:53,029 --> 01:03:50,319
the uh

1639
01:03:54,630 --> 01:03:53,039
gucci fireworks testing grounds

1640
01:03:57,670 --> 01:03:54,640
i don't know if there was a shootout

1641
01:04:00,549 --> 01:03:57,680
maybe massachusetts shootout get down

1642
01:04:01,510 --> 01:04:00,559
whatever set off some firecrackers but

1643
01:04:04,150 --> 01:04:01,520
john

1644
01:04:07,029 --> 01:04:04,160
should have known the sound of gunshots

1645
01:04:09,190 --> 01:04:07,039
i mean he used to go to the range

1646
01:04:11,990 --> 01:04:09,200
he had to take a firing you know test

1647
01:04:13,430 --> 01:04:12,000
every so often to recertify so he could

1648
01:04:15,670 --> 01:04:13,440
carry her

1649
01:04:18,549 --> 01:04:15,680
sidearm you know in court he was a

1650
01:04:20,230 --> 01:04:18,559
uniformed court officer so i think that

1651
01:04:22,150 --> 01:04:20,240
john would have known the sound of

1652
01:04:24,309 --> 01:04:22,160
gunshots unless somebody was just out

1653
01:04:27,349 --> 01:04:24,319
there with a gun firing it

1654
01:04:29,990 --> 01:04:27,359
enough to scare the hell out of john

1655
01:04:33,510 --> 01:04:30,000
and matthew was in on it i don't know

1656
01:04:35,349 --> 01:04:33,520
did he say what the shootout was about

1657
01:04:37,670 --> 01:04:35,359
he didn't really i don't really know if

1658
01:04:40,230 --> 01:04:37,680
he specified probably in that

1659
01:04:42,950 --> 01:04:40,240
78 or 80 page uh

1660
01:04:45,270 --> 01:04:42,960
memorandum that they put out

1661
01:04:47,270 --> 01:04:45,280
it must be specified somewhere and there

1662
01:04:49,190 --> 01:04:47,280
apparently master chile told him that

1663
01:04:51,430 --> 01:04:49,200
there were people out there on one side

1664
01:04:55,750 --> 01:04:51,440
to protect him and other people coming

1665
01:04:57,510 --> 01:04:55,760
there to assassinate him or shoot at him

1666
01:04:59,430 --> 01:04:57,520
and not to worry about anything that he

1667
01:05:01,270 --> 01:04:59,440
was taking care of everything

1668
01:05:03,190 --> 01:05:01,280
so if somebody somebody

1669
01:05:05,029 --> 01:05:03,200
yeah if you convince somebody that they

1670
01:05:06,789 --> 01:05:05,039
just saved your life you're probably

1671
01:05:09,670 --> 01:05:06,799
going to believe them about other things

1672
01:05:10,710 --> 01:05:09,680
too i mean that's human nature

1673
01:05:13,029 --> 01:05:10,720
right

1674
01:05:17,349 --> 01:05:13,039
and you know granted you know john's got

1675
01:05:19,750 --> 01:05:17,359
a little bit too far off that way but uh

1676
01:05:21,829 --> 01:05:19,760
i i don't know i really don't know if

1677
01:05:24,470 --> 01:05:21,839
that took place i wasn't there i and i

1678
01:05:27,029 --> 01:05:24,480
i'm not going to take mazzuchelli's word

1679
01:05:29,190 --> 01:05:27,039
so you know

1680
01:05:34,309 --> 01:05:29,200
i'd like to hear john

1681
01:05:36,789 --> 01:05:34,319
did he did you discuss that with him or

1682
01:05:39,029 --> 01:05:36,799
no not but you know what it's a question

1683
01:05:41,349 --> 01:05:39,039
uh right ken it's a question that we

1684
01:05:43,510 --> 01:05:41,359
said we would ask him about when we

1685
01:05:45,190 --> 01:05:43,520
because we'd like to do another

1686
01:05:47,190 --> 01:05:45,200
interview with him as

1687
01:05:48,150 --> 01:05:47,200
you know within the next couple months

1688
01:05:51,190 --> 01:05:48,160
or so

1689
01:05:53,190 --> 01:05:51,200
so because this interview with him

1690
01:05:54,230 --> 01:05:53,200
sparked some more questions that ken and

1691
01:05:56,069 --> 01:05:54,240
i had

1692
01:05:57,829 --> 01:05:56,079
so um

1693
01:05:59,029 --> 01:05:57,839
are you there kim

1694
01:06:02,549 --> 01:05:59,039
i is

1695
01:06:08,309 --> 01:06:04,950
i'll set it up okay

1696
01:06:08,319 --> 01:06:13,029
i'll set it up it's not a problem

1697
01:06:17,990 --> 01:06:15,750
between now and and

1698
01:06:19,109 --> 01:06:18,000
december things are going to be a little

1699
01:06:20,789 --> 01:06:19,119
crazy

1700
01:06:22,470 --> 01:06:20,799
for us i'm going to be having some

1701
01:06:23,670 --> 01:06:22,480
surgery and and

1702
01:06:25,510 --> 01:06:23,680
so

1703
01:06:27,829 --> 01:06:25,520
um

1704
01:06:29,589 --> 01:06:27,839
yeah just i'd like to get peter on there

1705
01:06:30,950 --> 01:06:29,599
too because peter has some of the hard

1706
01:06:33,589 --> 01:06:30,960
questions

1707
01:06:36,630 --> 01:06:33,599
that you know we i try to explain as

1708
01:06:38,950 --> 01:06:36,640
best i understand them yeah peter some

1709
01:06:41,190 --> 01:06:38,960
very good points and i'd like to hear

1710
01:06:44,150 --> 01:06:41,200
how john responds to peter

1711
01:06:47,270 --> 01:06:44,160
okay i'm you know my cell phone i did

1712
01:06:50,309 --> 01:06:47,280
that interview uh john called me

1713
01:06:52,390 --> 01:06:50,319
and then i my cell phone has a add a

1714
01:06:54,390 --> 01:06:52,400
call thing and that's when i

1715
01:06:56,470 --> 01:06:54,400
pre-arranged with ken when i called

1716
01:06:57,829 --> 01:06:56,480
please pick up the phone he knew i was

1717
01:07:00,390 --> 01:06:57,839
going to be calling

1718
01:07:02,870 --> 01:07:00,400
and so then i brought ken in

1719
01:07:04,549 --> 01:07:02,880
on our conversation and that's how i got

1720
01:07:06,710 --> 01:07:04,559
the three of us together

1721
01:07:09,109 --> 01:07:06,720
i would have to experiment with it and

1722
01:07:11,349 --> 01:07:09,119
see if i can bring a fourth person in on

1723
01:07:14,230 --> 01:07:11,359
the conversation well let me say in the

1724
01:07:15,990 --> 01:07:14,240
past when i addressed john in on the

1725
01:07:16,710 --> 01:07:16,000
private conversations when he would call

1726
01:07:17,829 --> 01:07:16,720
me

1727
01:07:20,309 --> 01:07:17,839
uh

1728
01:07:22,870 --> 01:07:20,319
you know pretty much weekly or bi-weekly

1729
01:07:24,230 --> 01:07:22,880
from from amit hudson

1730
01:07:25,910 --> 01:07:24,240
he i would

1731
01:07:27,270 --> 01:07:25,920
said this to him several times and he

1732
01:07:29,430 --> 01:07:27,280
would sort of

1733
01:07:31,829 --> 01:07:29,440
yes i understand

1734
01:07:33,430 --> 01:07:31,839
and then he kind of go back to his i

1735
01:07:35,670 --> 01:07:33,440
mean evidently

1736
01:07:38,309 --> 01:07:35,680
he he wants to be right about this he

1737
01:07:40,549 --> 01:07:38,319
wants vindication he does not just want

1738
01:07:43,589 --> 01:07:40,559
to get out of jail i mean out of

1739
01:07:46,069 --> 01:07:43,599
incarceration he wants vindication and

1740
01:07:48,150 --> 01:07:46,079
he wants people to believe him

1741
01:07:50,630 --> 01:07:48,160
and he's too convinced about his own

1742
01:07:51,829 --> 01:07:50,640
rightness with regards to

1743
01:07:53,910 --> 01:07:51,839
uh

1744
01:07:56,309 --> 01:07:53,920
the intelligence agencies and he makes

1745
01:07:57,190 --> 01:07:56,319
more of a point than that than he should

1746
01:07:59,270 --> 01:07:57,200
uh

1747
01:08:01,349 --> 01:07:59,280
yeah i agree with that yeah i tend to

1748
01:08:03,829 --> 01:08:01,359
agree with you yeah and this is his own

1749
01:08:05,990 --> 01:08:03,839
you know so this to this degree he's

1750
01:08:07,349 --> 01:08:06,000
keeping himself he's he's put himself

1751
01:08:08,710 --> 01:08:07,359
behind bars

1752
01:08:11,430 --> 01:08:08,720
as much as

1753
01:08:13,510 --> 01:08:11,440
uh his adversaries have

1754
01:08:15,670 --> 01:08:13,520
uh you know peter i wish you could get

1755
01:08:18,470 --> 01:08:15,680
that across to him speak with him

1756
01:08:19,510 --> 01:08:18,480
directly okay i haven't i have many

1757
01:08:21,349 --> 01:08:19,520
times

1758
01:08:29,430 --> 01:08:21,359
i would like you to speak with him it

1759
01:08:36,070 --> 01:08:33,669
if you read the letters that he wrote to

1760
01:08:37,189 --> 01:08:36,080
elaine douglas she was frustrated with

1761
01:08:39,910 --> 01:08:37,199
him too

1762
01:08:42,070 --> 01:08:39,920
on this very issue right marilyn yeah he

1763
01:08:43,990 --> 01:08:42,080
gave him some really good good advice

1764
01:08:47,030 --> 01:08:44,000
she really did she gave him some really

1765
01:08:50,070 --> 01:08:47,040
good legal advice and he he just

1766
01:08:52,870 --> 01:08:50,080
arbitrarily dismissed it

1767
01:08:55,030 --> 01:08:52,880
yeah he did just out of hand just missed

1768
01:08:57,269 --> 01:08:55,040
it i mean told her

1769
01:08:58,709 --> 01:08:57,279
no i'm not doing that or did he give a

1770
01:09:02,390 --> 01:08:58,719
reason

1771
01:09:03,749 --> 01:09:02,400
um he just said no he's gonna do

1772
01:09:05,829 --> 01:09:03,759
he's gonna do

1773
01:09:08,309 --> 01:09:05,839
to stick with the attorney that he had

1774
01:09:09,749 --> 01:09:08,319
she wanted him to dump the attorney that

1775
01:09:12,390 --> 01:09:09,759
he had

1776
01:09:14,950 --> 01:09:12,400
and he should have and he should have uh

1777
01:09:15,749 --> 01:09:14,960
but he was rosalie when he had rizzoli

1778
01:09:21,749 --> 01:09:15,759
yeah

1779
01:09:23,189 --> 01:09:21,759
and that was probably good advice

1780
01:09:25,189 --> 01:09:23,199
yeah and

1781
01:09:26,950 --> 01:09:25,199
you know she she's

1782
01:09:29,110 --> 01:09:26,960
she saw the writing on the wall and

1783
01:09:31,749 --> 01:09:29,120
there there was some advice on what he

1784
01:09:33,829 --> 01:09:31,759
should and shouldn't talk about any and

1785
01:09:36,550 --> 01:09:33,839
hey just for all of our listeners and

1786
01:09:38,709 --> 01:09:36,560
everybody in chat that's um that's a

1787
01:09:41,030 --> 01:09:38,719
lesson to be learned if you have to deal

1788
01:09:43,510 --> 01:09:41,040
with a legal beagle

1789
01:09:45,669 --> 01:09:43,520
you get to interview them too

1790
01:09:48,470 --> 01:09:45,679
and it's very important and i think

1791
01:09:49,910 --> 01:09:48,480
that's where john missed the boat

1792
01:09:52,870 --> 01:09:49,920
and it may have been because you know

1793
01:09:55,510 --> 01:09:52,880
being 20 years as a bailiff

1794
01:09:56,470 --> 01:09:55,520
in the court system he took the advice

1795
01:09:58,070 --> 01:09:56,480
of his

1796
01:10:01,270 --> 01:09:58,080
attorney

1797
01:10:03,270 --> 01:10:01,280
rausch and reno at that time reno was

1798
01:10:05,510 --> 01:10:03,280
not his attorney at that time no no i

1799
01:10:07,510 --> 01:10:05,520
yeah yeah i know later on yeah but he

1800
01:10:09,030 --> 01:10:07,520
was worthless as tits on a boar hog too

1801
01:10:10,870 --> 01:10:09,040
i'm sorry we had him on the show and i

1802
01:10:13,990 --> 01:10:10,880
was not impressed

1803
01:10:14,790 --> 01:10:14,000
okay well i i called it

1804
01:10:17,750 --> 01:10:14,800
and

1805
01:10:20,709 --> 01:10:17,760
it's important that you interview

1806
01:10:23,430 --> 01:10:20,719
the attorney also and ask them

1807
01:10:25,830 --> 01:10:23,440
appointment questions uh that's relative

1808
01:10:28,790 --> 01:10:25,840
to your case you know and i and

1809
01:10:31,669 --> 01:10:28,800
unfortunately john did didn't do that

1810
01:10:33,590 --> 01:10:31,679
for whatever reason and i suspect it was

1811
01:10:35,669 --> 01:10:33,600
because he was

1812
01:10:38,310 --> 01:10:35,679
involved in the court system

1813
01:10:39,750 --> 01:10:38,320
and he just took it as gospel

1814
01:10:42,390 --> 01:10:39,760
yeah that the the

1815
01:10:44,229 --> 01:10:42,400
that those two legal beagles wouldn't uh

1816
01:10:46,790 --> 01:10:44,239
wouldn't sell them down the drain which

1817
01:10:48,630 --> 01:10:46,800
in fact is exactly what they did

1818
01:10:51,990 --> 01:10:48,640
yeah well i think the main problem with

1819
01:10:52,950 --> 01:10:52,000
reno was not so much that he was

1820
01:10:54,470 --> 01:10:52,960
uh

1821
01:10:55,270 --> 01:10:54,480
an idiot

1822
01:11:02,470 --> 01:10:55,280
but

1823
01:11:05,590 --> 01:11:02,480
a case with this many strings tied to it

1824
01:11:07,430 --> 01:11:05,600
over his head yes

1825
01:11:10,390 --> 01:11:07,440
andrea rizzuli was too

1826
01:11:12,390 --> 01:11:10,400
yes hey uh uh peter remember my question

1827
01:11:14,709 --> 01:11:12,400
my thing about the couple republicans

1828
01:11:16,790 --> 01:11:14,719
and you said it wasn't a vendetta this

1829
01:11:19,350 --> 01:11:16,800
is out of the washington post

1830
01:11:21,110 --> 01:11:19,360
january 11th 1998

1831
01:11:22,229 --> 01:11:21,120
and of course it's the whole page here

1832
01:11:25,189 --> 01:11:22,239
but it says

1833
01:11:27,669 --> 01:11:25,199
in the 1970s and 80s ford became active

1834
01:11:29,750 --> 01:11:27,679
in local politics forming a conservative

1835
01:11:31,350 --> 01:11:29,760
party club in suffolk county

1836
01:11:33,510 --> 01:11:31,360
supporting his mother and her bids for

1837
01:11:35,350 --> 01:11:33,520
highway superintendent and county

1838
01:11:37,189 --> 01:11:35,360
legislator and running for several party

1839
01:11:38,790 --> 01:11:37,199
positions himself

1840
01:11:40,950 --> 01:11:38,800
frustration over suffolk county's

1841
01:11:43,510 --> 01:11:40,960
republican rule caused him to quit

1842
01:11:46,070 --> 01:11:43,520
politics but his hatred of county

1843
01:11:48,550 --> 01:11:46,080
republicans never left him

1844
01:11:50,709 --> 01:11:48,560
that was the site i was coming from well

1845
01:11:52,830 --> 01:11:50,719
vendetta may be on john ford's behalf

1846
01:11:54,950 --> 01:11:52,840
but but these people aren't into

1847
01:11:57,110 --> 01:11:54,960
vendettas at their level they're into

1848
01:11:58,630 --> 01:11:57,120
him as a target for

1849
01:12:01,189 --> 01:11:58,640
uh political

1850
01:12:03,510 --> 01:12:01,199
uh trouble they they could care less

1851
01:12:05,910 --> 01:12:03,520
about getting back at john ford

1852
01:12:07,669 --> 01:12:05,920
no they just wanted to escape they

1853
01:12:10,070 --> 01:12:07,679
wanted a really good scapegoat and

1854
01:12:11,430 --> 01:12:10,080
somebody that they didn't care for yeah

1855
01:12:14,149 --> 01:12:11,440
he was dead

1856
01:12:16,229 --> 01:12:14,159
he was it down sideways and their fear

1857
01:12:19,590 --> 01:12:16,239
was that they were going to get caught

1858
01:12:20,870 --> 01:12:19,600
with their in in with uh being tied to

1859
01:12:22,550 --> 01:12:20,880
the fires

1860
01:12:23,350 --> 01:12:22,560
you know because

1861
01:12:25,350 --> 01:12:23,360
um

1862
01:12:29,030 --> 01:12:25,360
you know this was multi-layered this was

1863
01:12:32,630 --> 01:12:29,040
a multi-layered problem yes you're right

1864
01:12:35,910 --> 01:12:32,640
so it involves it involves corruption it

1865
01:12:39,270 --> 01:12:35,920
involves criminal activity it involves

1866
01:12:41,030 --> 01:12:39,280
ufos ufo investigations and these

1867
01:12:42,870 --> 01:12:41,040
outrageous fires

1868
01:12:46,470 --> 01:12:42,880
yes

1869
01:12:47,669 --> 01:12:46,480
and in in another sense it involved

1870
01:12:50,709 --> 01:12:47,679
um

1871
01:12:52,070 --> 01:12:50,719
the the laboratory that was down the

1872
01:12:55,030 --> 01:12:52,080
road

1873
01:12:58,470 --> 01:12:55,040
because i do believe that some of those

1874
01:13:00,950 --> 01:12:58,480
supposed ufos that crashed were probably

1875
01:13:08,229 --> 01:13:00,960
missiles that they were testing and that

1876
01:13:12,229 --> 01:13:10,390
right and that that's where the ready

1877
01:13:14,709 --> 01:13:12,239
radium came from there was the stuff

1878
01:13:17,189 --> 01:13:14,719
that they put in his truck right i mean

1879
01:13:19,350 --> 01:13:17,199
they admitted it the following day the

1880
01:13:21,430 --> 01:13:19,360
day after the arrest i said i mean he's

1881
01:13:24,709 --> 01:13:21,440
got an unlocked uh you know his little

1882
01:13:27,350 --> 01:13:24,719
mazda truck okay i i've ridden in it

1883
01:13:28,390 --> 01:13:27,360
i've seen it you know it has a camper

1884
01:13:30,870 --> 01:13:28,400
cap

1885
01:13:33,189 --> 01:13:30,880
and that thing is always unlocked he

1886
01:13:35,270 --> 01:13:33,199
never bothered to lock his his cars or

1887
01:13:37,350 --> 01:13:35,280
his truck he had to park in front of the

1888
01:13:39,430 --> 01:13:37,360
house and they were that's where they i

1889
01:13:41,110 --> 01:13:39,440
mean they got there early they loaded it

1890
01:13:43,590 --> 01:13:41,120
up with stuff that they were supposed to

1891
01:13:45,990 --> 01:13:43,600
dump from grumman corporation they

1892
01:13:47,510 --> 01:13:46,000
probably had hundreds of those canisters

1893
01:13:52,149 --> 01:13:47,520
there's only a few

1894
01:13:55,750 --> 01:13:52,159
grams of if if there's even a gram of

1895
01:13:59,270 --> 01:13:55,760
depleted radium metallic radium in there

1896
01:14:01,669 --> 01:13:59,280
in a 25 pound you know coffee can size

1897
01:14:03,669 --> 01:14:01,679
container supposedly four or five of

1898
01:14:05,030 --> 01:14:03,679
those in his car and that's all they

1899
01:14:06,070 --> 01:14:05,040
found they didn't find anything in the

1900
01:14:07,030 --> 01:14:06,080
house

1901
01:14:08,070 --> 01:14:07,040
john

1902
01:14:11,110 --> 01:14:08,080
wanted

1903
01:14:13,189 --> 01:14:11,120
a can of

1904
01:14:15,669 --> 01:14:13,199
radium to test

1905
01:14:17,910 --> 01:14:15,679
um his

1906
01:14:19,750 --> 01:14:17,920
the guy yeah that's right he wanted he

1907
01:14:21,750 --> 01:14:19,760
wanted something that would that would

1908
01:14:25,430 --> 01:14:21,760
that would set off the lowest setting

1909
01:14:26,870 --> 01:14:25,440
all he needed was this this real

1910
01:14:28,390 --> 01:14:26,880
mild uh

1911
01:14:30,390 --> 01:14:28,400
bit of radium

1912
01:14:31,910 --> 01:14:30,400
yeah he had the ore he had a piece of

1913
01:14:33,430 --> 01:14:31,920
the air in fact they weren't even able

1914
01:14:35,350 --> 01:14:33,440
to find that i don't even know what i

1915
01:14:36,790 --> 01:14:35,360
think he may have used it already put it

1916
01:14:39,270 --> 01:14:36,800
on the guy who found it and they became

1917
01:14:41,350 --> 01:14:39,280
part of the test trip

1918
01:14:42,950 --> 01:14:41,360
what i thought was interesting in the in

1919
01:14:44,390 --> 01:14:42,960
the interview for the news people they

1920
01:14:46,709 --> 01:14:44,400
had five

1921
01:14:48,390 --> 01:14:46,719
leaded containers there like you must

1922
01:14:50,709 --> 01:14:48,400
have had you know half of a nuclear

1923
01:14:51,430 --> 01:14:50,719
submarine there

1924
01:14:53,270 --> 01:14:51,440
yeah

1925
01:14:55,189 --> 01:14:53,280
it's a little tiny glass jar in the

1926
01:15:00,390 --> 01:14:55,199
middle of that that holds like about a

1927
01:15:05,189 --> 01:15:02,630
what the tv

1928
01:15:08,149 --> 01:15:05,199
show the news showed was this table that

1929
01:15:09,110 --> 01:15:08,159
had five big lead containers just like

1930
01:15:11,110 --> 01:15:09,120
you used

1931
01:15:13,110 --> 01:15:11,120
for radioactive so they didn't even

1932
01:15:14,550 --> 01:15:13,120
belong to him

1933
01:15:16,950 --> 01:15:14,560
not at all

1934
01:15:18,630 --> 01:15:16,960
well and and and here's here's the

1935
01:15:21,910 --> 01:15:18,640
problem with that and i'm just speaking

1936
01:15:24,070 --> 01:15:21,920
from from a law enforcement perspective

1937
01:15:25,430 --> 01:15:24,080
that they weren't in the house they were

1938
01:15:28,070 --> 01:15:25,440
in his car

1939
01:15:30,470 --> 01:15:28,080
and any first-year law

1940
01:15:33,669 --> 01:15:30,480
student could destroy that evidence in

1941
01:15:35,189 --> 01:15:33,679
court uh given the fact that hey

1942
01:15:36,310 --> 01:15:35,199
anybody could have got in that car and

1943
01:15:37,750 --> 01:15:36,320
put them in there did you find

1944
01:15:39,830 --> 01:15:37,760
fingerprints on those containers that

1945
01:15:42,149 --> 01:15:39,840
belonged to john ford they probably

1946
01:15:44,550 --> 01:15:42,159
didn't even bother to do that

1947
01:15:45,990 --> 01:15:44,560
they didn't even bother to work no

1948
01:15:48,070 --> 01:15:46,000
well they hate because they were playing

1949
01:15:49,830 --> 01:15:48,080
the game their way and so you know that

1950
01:15:52,070 --> 01:15:49,840
wasn't something that uh

1951
01:15:53,910 --> 01:15:52,080
and i suspect that they knew that that

1952
01:15:56,310 --> 01:15:53,920
they weren't going to go to court

1953
01:15:57,990 --> 01:15:56,320
you know i'm i'm back to that to that

1954
01:15:59,830 --> 01:15:58,000
attorney initially i

1955
01:16:01,669 --> 01:15:59,840
and i think he was

1956
01:16:04,630 --> 01:16:01,679
in the bag on the other side he was

1957
01:16:07,830 --> 01:16:04,640
dirty he was dirty let's just say

1958
01:16:10,950 --> 01:16:09,270
you guys are pleased with the new

1959
01:16:12,070 --> 01:16:10,960
attorney though

1960
01:16:13,669 --> 01:16:12,080
yes

1961
01:16:15,189 --> 01:16:13,679
i sure am

1962
01:16:16,149 --> 01:16:15,199
extensively

1963
01:16:18,790 --> 01:16:16,159
okay

1964
01:16:21,590 --> 01:16:18,800
and i made sure that john i john slept

1965
01:16:24,229 --> 01:16:21,600
on it he spoke to the guy himself

1966
01:16:26,229 --> 01:16:24,239
and i called him again before i sent any

1967
01:16:28,229 --> 01:16:26,239
money to him or anything like that or

1968
01:16:29,910 --> 01:16:28,239
promised him the thing

1969
01:16:31,189 --> 01:16:29,920
because he wants to pursue this

1970
01:16:33,669 --> 01:16:31,199
vigorously

1971
01:16:35,990 --> 01:16:33,679
and he also wants media attention on

1972
01:16:37,910 --> 01:16:36,000
this what has he done so far

1973
01:16:40,310 --> 01:16:37,920
actually done i

1974
01:16:43,669 --> 01:16:40,320
i don't know i know he's filed a bunch

1975
01:16:46,070 --> 01:16:43,679
of papers he's filed all sorts of briefs

1976
01:16:49,910 --> 01:16:46,080
and he uh he

1977
01:16:51,270 --> 01:16:49,920
hired an investigator and um

1978
01:16:53,270 --> 01:16:51,280
you know i've spoken with the

1979
01:16:54,709 --> 01:16:53,280
investigation firm

1980
01:16:56,310 --> 01:16:54,719
let me tell you something

1981
01:16:58,709 --> 01:16:56,320
hey

1982
01:17:01,750 --> 01:16:58,719
if he does want to get publicity

1983
01:17:03,990 --> 01:17:01,760
uh one of the first things he should do

1984
01:17:05,990 --> 01:17:04,000
is inform

1985
01:17:09,189 --> 01:17:06,000
us via you

1986
01:17:11,990 --> 01:17:09,199
of all of the filings he does

1987
01:17:14,070 --> 01:17:12,000
so that we can make them public and

1988
01:17:16,630 --> 01:17:14,080
there is a see the response counter

1989
01:17:18,630 --> 01:17:16,640
response from the system if he really

1990
01:17:21,110 --> 01:17:18,640
truly wants to make it public he he

1991
01:17:23,990 --> 01:17:21,120
should inform you and you should let him

1992
01:17:25,910 --> 01:17:24,000
know this and because

1993
01:17:28,229 --> 01:17:25,920
he would definitely want to know that

1994
01:17:30,709 --> 01:17:28,239
because it's actually public record when

1995
01:17:32,630 --> 01:17:30,719
you file something so

1996
01:17:34,950 --> 01:17:32,640
i'll contact him tomorrow morning i'll

1997
01:17:38,390 --> 01:17:34,960
contact him tomorrow morning i'd also

1998
01:17:43,590 --> 01:17:41,110
yeah i also would like to know is did he

1999
01:17:45,590 --> 01:17:43,600
find those letters that i sent to his

2000
01:17:47,430 --> 01:17:45,600
office

2001
01:17:48,709 --> 01:17:47,440
of help to him

2002
01:17:50,149 --> 01:17:48,719
in in

2003
01:17:52,310 --> 01:17:50,159
realizing

2004
01:17:55,030 --> 01:17:52,320
uh the setup for

2005
01:17:57,430 --> 01:17:55,040
for john and what transpired

2006
01:17:59,510 --> 01:17:57,440
yes and every every document he filed

2007
01:18:02,709 --> 01:17:59,520
should be put up on the website

2008
01:18:06,070 --> 01:18:02,719
uh with comments about what it means and

2009
01:18:07,030 --> 01:18:06,080
what it implies okay and this will help

2010
01:18:09,270 --> 01:18:07,040
uh

2011
01:18:13,110 --> 01:18:09,280
well legal publicity of the case the

2012
01:18:15,750 --> 01:18:13,120
game plan is to let him get a little bit

2013
01:18:18,870 --> 01:18:15,760
more familiar with john and spend some

2014
01:18:21,350 --> 01:18:18,880
time with joe and so forth and then uh

2015
01:18:24,070 --> 01:18:21,360
we were going to call his office and see

2016
01:18:25,030 --> 01:18:24,080
if he would come on the show and do an

2017
01:18:26,470 --> 01:18:25,040
interview

2018
01:18:28,229 --> 01:18:26,480
he's had over a month they've become

2019
01:18:29,030 --> 01:18:28,239
familiar with the case

2020
01:18:30,390 --> 01:18:29,040
yeah

2021
01:18:32,630 --> 01:18:30,400
well we're we're

2022
01:18:34,550 --> 01:18:32,640
we're getting ready to do that right uh

2023
01:18:36,950 --> 01:18:34,560
i'm jessica he's already had him to

2024
01:18:37,750 --> 01:18:36,960
become familiar with the kids right

2025
01:18:42,980 --> 01:18:37,760
now

2026
01:18:46,709 --> 01:18:44,310
[Music]

2027
01:18:49,110 --> 01:18:46,719
um every time we've tried to get an

2028
01:18:51,590 --> 01:18:49,120
attorney on here

2029
01:18:53,189 --> 01:18:51,600
the reasoning has been you know well we

2030
01:18:55,510 --> 01:18:53,199
don't want to give give up the ghost

2031
01:18:59,110 --> 01:18:55,520
here on what the game plan is

2032
01:19:01,510 --> 01:18:59,120
and the one time we got a lawyer on here

2033
01:19:02,709 --> 01:19:01,520
it was a dud so you know

2034
01:19:04,709 --> 01:19:02,719
i'm not

2035
01:19:05,990 --> 01:19:04,719
i think it's a jinx to bring the lawyer

2036
01:19:11,270 --> 01:19:06,000
onto the show

2037
01:19:14,790 --> 01:19:13,110
yeah uh the other thing i want to bring

2038
01:19:16,709 --> 01:19:14,800
up is you guys

2039
01:19:20,340 --> 01:19:16,719
best interest oh

2040
01:19:22,390 --> 01:19:20,350
yeah it's uh

2041
01:19:23,430 --> 01:19:22,400
[Music]

2042
01:19:24,550 --> 01:19:23,440
there was something that was said

2043
01:19:26,070 --> 01:19:24,560
earlier

2044
01:19:29,510 --> 01:19:26,080
about this interview with john that you

2045
01:19:31,910 --> 01:19:29,520
guys did in september okay

2046
01:19:36,310 --> 01:19:33,830
there was something about he didn't know

2047
01:19:37,669 --> 01:19:36,320
anything about

2048
01:19:40,790 --> 01:19:37,679
corruption

2049
01:19:43,270 --> 01:19:40,800
right okay or anything okay yeah

2050
01:19:45,189 --> 01:19:43,280
that doesn't even come close to adding

2051
01:19:47,189 --> 01:19:45,199
up um

2052
01:19:49,110 --> 01:19:47,199
in all the times that i've spoken with

2053
01:19:50,550 --> 01:19:49,120
him in the years past

2054
01:19:52,630 --> 01:19:50,560
and

2055
01:19:54,390 --> 01:19:52,640
any other person who has closely

2056
01:19:56,310 --> 01:19:54,400
researched this whether

2057
01:19:59,350 --> 01:19:56,320
maybe uh

2058
01:20:03,350 --> 01:19:59,360
his longtime friend george dixon

2059
01:20:05,510 --> 01:20:03,360
or long time advocate uh alfred lemberg

2060
01:20:07,750 --> 01:20:05,520
there's not one person out there who is

2061
01:20:08,630 --> 01:20:07,760
familiar with this case who

2062
01:20:13,590 --> 01:20:08,640
uh

2063
01:20:15,990 --> 01:20:13,600
um understand the corruption behind the

2064
01:20:17,990 --> 01:20:16,000
whole thing and that includes john

2065
01:20:20,310 --> 01:20:18,000
right so i'm not sure what kind of

2066
01:20:21,590 --> 01:20:20,320
damage has been done here

2067
01:20:23,510 --> 01:20:21,600
to him

2068
01:20:24,950 --> 01:20:23,520
or if he knew somebody was listening in

2069
01:20:27,590 --> 01:20:24,960
on that interview

2070
01:20:30,070 --> 01:20:27,600
but that's that's a possibility he may

2071
01:20:32,950 --> 01:20:30,080
have been asked with all the information

2072
01:20:35,750 --> 01:20:32,960
yeah i mean that's just nothing against

2073
01:20:38,149 --> 01:20:35,760
john but that that's a bs response yes

2074
01:20:39,350 --> 01:20:38,159
but we have to be careful because

2075
01:20:45,510 --> 01:20:39,360
uh

2076
01:20:47,510 --> 01:20:45,520
judgment of being mentally unsound

2077
01:20:49,510 --> 01:20:47,520
we don't need to be bringing up points

2078
01:20:51,189 --> 01:20:49,520
that are contradictory no that's what

2079
01:20:52,390 --> 01:20:51,199
i'm saying to the audience here too

2080
01:20:53,510 --> 01:20:52,400
because

2081
01:20:55,270 --> 01:20:53,520
i mean

2082
01:20:57,030 --> 01:20:55,280
and there's trolls listening to the show

2083
01:20:58,790 --> 01:20:57,040
tonight who are looking for any excuse

2084
01:21:00,950 --> 01:20:58,800
to rip the rug out from under it and say

2085
01:21:03,750 --> 01:21:00,960
oh [\h__\h] it he's insane

2086
01:21:04,709 --> 01:21:03,760
and this would be one more excuse so

2087
01:21:06,709 --> 01:21:04,719
uh

2088
01:21:08,229 --> 01:21:06,719
if you're gonna come on the air and say

2089
01:21:09,910 --> 01:21:08,239
well in the interview john didn't know

2090
01:21:11,590 --> 01:21:09,920
anything about corruption

2091
01:21:13,510 --> 01:21:11,600
we have to put a little addendum on

2092
01:21:14,790 --> 01:21:13,520
there and say maybe he wasn't allowed to

2093
01:21:17,270 --> 01:21:14,800
say anything

2094
01:21:19,189 --> 01:21:17,280
because that's not the case that's not

2095
01:21:20,870 --> 01:21:19,199
the case at all

2096
01:21:22,790 --> 01:21:20,880
yeah

2097
01:21:25,430 --> 01:21:22,800
exactly i was just surprised to hear him

2098
01:21:27,030 --> 01:21:25,440
say that to us because

2099
01:21:28,950 --> 01:21:27,040
i mean it's all through elaine's files

2100
01:21:31,430 --> 01:21:28,960
it's in newspaper articles et cetera et

2101
01:21:33,030 --> 01:21:31,440
cetera so i i would have fallen on the

2102
01:21:34,870 --> 01:21:33,040
floor if i was on that interview

2103
01:21:37,270 --> 01:21:34,880
listening to him say that you know it's

2104
01:21:39,830 --> 01:21:37,280
just like we were sitting down we were

2105
01:21:41,510 --> 01:21:39,840
sitting there but it was my job dropped

2106
01:21:44,149 --> 01:21:41,520
a little bit

2107
01:21:47,110 --> 01:21:44,159
but we didn't we didn't want

2108
01:21:49,910 --> 01:21:47,120
to pursue it and push him

2109
01:21:52,470 --> 01:21:49,920
any more than what he he said because he

2110
01:21:54,390 --> 01:21:52,480
he really came across like

2111
01:21:57,030 --> 01:21:54,400
all right this makes me angry that

2112
01:21:59,030 --> 01:21:57,040
everybody thinks that i know knew i knew

2113
01:22:01,990 --> 01:21:59,040
more than what

2114
01:22:04,149 --> 01:22:02,000
about corruption that was going on

2115
01:22:05,510 --> 01:22:04,159
and uh

2116
01:22:07,189 --> 01:22:05,520
quite frankly

2117
01:22:09,350 --> 01:22:07,199
he had to know about a lot of the

2118
01:22:11,830 --> 01:22:09,360
corruption his mother was involved and

2119
01:22:14,790 --> 01:22:11,840
he ran for political office and

2120
01:22:17,270 --> 01:22:14,800
and uh so they were they were deeply

2121
01:22:19,030 --> 01:22:17,280
involved with with politics

2122
01:22:21,990 --> 01:22:19,040
and um

2123
01:22:25,110 --> 01:22:22,000
yeah but you have to remember anybody

2124
01:22:27,350 --> 01:22:25,120
that was on long island in the 90s all

2125
01:22:29,510 --> 01:22:27,360
right and stuff specifically in suffolk

2126
01:22:32,310 --> 01:22:29,520
county and even more specifically in

2127
01:22:34,790 --> 01:22:32,320
brookhaven knew that that

2128
01:22:36,310 --> 01:22:34,800
everything was corrupt i mean it wasn't

2129
01:22:38,229 --> 01:22:36,320
just a matter of you know picking and

2130
01:22:41,189 --> 01:22:38,239
choosing you could call the highway

2131
01:22:43,270 --> 01:22:41,199
department or the parks department or

2132
01:22:46,070 --> 01:22:43,280
this or that and you know there was

2133
01:22:48,070 --> 01:22:46,080
always something going on people's jobs

2134
01:22:50,229 --> 01:22:48,080
being bought

2135
01:22:51,350 --> 01:22:50,239
illegal sand mining

2136
01:22:53,830 --> 01:22:51,360
you know people didn't start getting

2137
01:22:55,669 --> 01:22:53,840
arrested until late 90s

2138
01:22:58,629 --> 01:22:55,679
right for major offenses federal

2139
01:23:00,629 --> 01:22:58,639
offenses so obviously there's corruption

2140
01:23:03,110 --> 01:23:00,639
but did john had first-hand knowledge of

2141
01:23:04,229 --> 01:23:03,120
it before anybody else i don't know

2142
01:23:06,229 --> 01:23:04,239
all right

2143
01:23:07,830 --> 01:23:06,239
maybe they thought he was just a good

2144
01:23:09,510 --> 01:23:07,840
scapegoat and he didn't have any

2145
01:23:11,750 --> 01:23:09,520
foreknowledge of this

2146
01:23:13,350 --> 01:23:11,760
or direct knowledge

2147
01:23:16,229 --> 01:23:13,360
okay

2148
01:23:17,830 --> 01:23:16,239
yeah long island has always been a pig

2149
01:23:20,470 --> 01:23:17,840
swell of

2150
01:23:23,270 --> 01:23:20,480
mental depression corruption

2151
01:23:26,629 --> 01:23:23,280
um it's just a very dark cloud

2152
01:23:29,350 --> 01:23:26,639
the dark clouds has always hung over

2153
01:23:31,350 --> 01:23:29,360
uh long island okay

2154
01:23:32,950 --> 01:23:31,360
in fact the only thing nice you could

2155
01:23:36,310 --> 01:23:32,960
probably read about long island is from

2156
01:23:38,149 --> 01:23:36,320
walt whitman but in leaves of grass and

2157
01:23:40,950 --> 01:23:38,159
the thing is anything else would sound

2158
01:23:43,189 --> 01:23:40,960
like um holy crap who the hell wants to

2159
01:23:44,709 --> 01:23:43,199
live here and i know that because i

2160
01:23:46,229 --> 01:23:44,719
lived there all my life

2161
01:23:47,830 --> 01:23:46,239
you know i've only been out here i've

2162
01:23:49,910 --> 01:23:47,840
only been out here for the last eight or

2163
01:23:51,510 --> 01:23:49,920
nine years in the southwest

2164
01:23:53,270 --> 01:23:51,520
so um

2165
01:23:54,310 --> 01:23:53,280
the thing is it's there there's always

2166
01:23:57,030 --> 01:23:54,320
this

2167
01:23:59,510 --> 01:23:57,040
overhanging dark cloud of depression and

2168
01:24:01,189 --> 01:23:59,520
corruption at the same time and my

2169
01:24:02,629 --> 01:24:01,199
father was on the receiving end of that

2170
01:24:04,950 --> 01:24:02,639
too with what

2171
01:24:06,470 --> 01:24:04,960
joe was just talking about because uh

2172
01:24:07,669 --> 01:24:06,480
at the time that my father worked for

2173
01:24:10,470 --> 01:24:07,679
the county

2174
01:24:12,950 --> 01:24:10,480
um all the people in that union

2175
01:24:15,270 --> 01:24:12,960
uh threw the weight behind

2176
01:24:18,870 --> 01:24:15,280
the republican candidate

2177
01:24:21,430 --> 01:24:18,880
for a county executive in nassau and

2178
01:24:22,709 --> 01:24:21,440
this wasn't even suffolk county uh

2179
01:24:25,510 --> 01:24:22,719
golota

2180
01:24:26,229 --> 01:24:25,520
and by throwing the weight behind galata

2181
01:24:30,390 --> 01:24:26,239
he

2182
01:24:33,030 --> 01:24:30,400
for his own personal gain

2183
01:24:35,669 --> 01:24:33,040
and clearly my father included everybody

2184
01:24:36,870 --> 01:24:35,679
in the union to invest in what turned

2185
01:24:38,709 --> 01:24:36,880
out to be

2186
01:24:43,990 --> 01:24:38,719
a fraudulent

2187
01:24:46,629 --> 01:24:44,000
front shell scam on um medical insurance

2188
01:24:48,709 --> 01:24:46,639
and got everybody to invest and put

2189
01:24:50,790 --> 01:24:48,719
their money in that and everybody got

2190
01:24:51,750 --> 01:24:50,800
screwed including my dad

2191
01:24:54,470 --> 01:24:51,760
and

2192
01:24:55,270 --> 01:24:54,480
golota walked away scot-free

2193
01:24:56,870 --> 01:24:55,280
wow

2194
01:24:59,189 --> 01:24:56,880
this is the way things work on long

2195
01:25:00,709 --> 01:24:59,199
island it's it's it's that we just had

2196
01:25:03,590 --> 01:25:00,719
the uh

2197
01:25:04,950 --> 01:25:03,600
town supervisor in uh oyster bay

2198
01:25:07,590 --> 01:25:04,960
investigated

2199
01:25:08,950 --> 01:25:07,600
and uh uh he had to step off for you

2200
01:25:11,189 --> 01:25:08,960
know bribing

2201
01:25:13,750 --> 01:25:11,199
it's it's outrageous and egregious but

2202
01:25:15,189 --> 01:25:13,760
it's this is standard way of doing

2203
01:25:16,390 --> 01:25:15,199
business on

2204
01:25:18,470 --> 01:25:16,400
long island

2205
01:25:21,110 --> 01:25:18,480
and new york city was that way for a

2206
01:25:23,830 --> 01:25:21,120
long time i don't know if it's as bad as

2207
01:25:27,030 --> 01:25:23,840
it used to be i really don't know

2208
01:25:29,590 --> 01:25:27,040
uh it's probably worse i'm not sure that

2209
01:25:30,629 --> 01:25:29,600
it is i mean on the real estate stuff

2210
01:25:34,550 --> 01:25:30,639
yes

2211
01:25:39,990 --> 01:25:36,229
now that donald trump is out of new york

2212
01:25:42,470 --> 01:25:40,000
city it can't be that bad

2213
01:25:46,229 --> 01:25:42,480
it's they try to take the flagrant part

2214
01:25:48,470 --> 01:25:46,239
and make it more sophisticated or not so

2215
01:25:50,229 --> 01:25:48,480
obvious the whole key is to make it

2216
01:25:53,430 --> 01:25:50,239
you know smoking mirrors in that

2217
01:25:55,189 --> 01:25:53,440
interview he mentioned the fire

2218
01:25:57,669 --> 01:25:55,199
that was burning

2219
01:25:58,629 --> 01:25:57,679
and wasn't being controlled or fought is

2220
01:26:00,950 --> 01:25:58,639
because

2221
01:26:01,910 --> 01:26:00,960
they wanted it to they being the powers

2222
01:26:05,990 --> 01:26:01,920
to be

2223
01:26:07,830 --> 01:26:06,000
condemned so that real estate

2224
01:26:09,270 --> 01:26:07,840
the real estate could be picked up

2225
01:26:11,110 --> 01:26:09,280
really cheap and then all these

2226
01:26:12,550 --> 01:26:11,120
expensive houses and condos could be

2227
01:26:13,350 --> 01:26:12,560
built there or at least that's what

2228
01:26:14,790 --> 01:26:13,360
happens

2229
01:26:16,310 --> 01:26:14,800
according to john

2230
01:26:18,950 --> 01:26:16,320
the pine barrels that's what it was

2231
01:26:21,030 --> 01:26:18,960
right yeah didn't do anything with that

2232
01:26:24,310 --> 01:26:21,040
that land

2233
01:26:27,669 --> 01:26:24,320
so interesting

2234
01:26:29,990 --> 01:26:27,679
so now there's a major lawsuit uh

2235
01:26:31,669 --> 01:26:30,000
from people adjacent to the pine barrens

2236
01:26:34,149 --> 01:26:31,679
i don't know the specifics of it but

2237
01:26:37,430 --> 01:26:34,159
it's matter of public record once again

2238
01:26:39,430 --> 01:26:37,440
and uh somebody got paid a lot of money

2239
01:26:42,709 --> 01:26:39,440
and there were kickbacks i mean you have

2240
01:26:45,189 --> 01:26:42,719
to know that yeah okay you can't

2241
01:26:47,510 --> 01:26:45,199
institute a lawsuit on long island not

2242
01:26:50,390 --> 01:26:47,520
not here with without the expectation

2243
01:26:52,950 --> 01:26:50,400
having given some of it back right

2244
01:26:54,870 --> 01:26:52,960
that's just the way it is

2245
01:26:56,470 --> 01:26:54,880
well everybody it says here know what

2246
01:26:58,709 --> 01:26:56,480
i'm talking about yeah we've reached

2247
01:27:00,550 --> 01:26:58,719
ended this show everybody good show uh

2248
01:27:03,030 --> 01:27:00,560
that went by quick already

2249
01:27:05,030 --> 01:27:03,040
oh yeah

2250
01:27:08,310 --> 01:27:05,040
wow yeah

2251
01:27:09,750 --> 01:27:08,320
thanks guys for coming on and and

2252
01:27:10,709 --> 01:27:09,760
filling in and

2253
01:27:13,270 --> 01:27:10,719
peter

2254
01:27:15,669 --> 01:27:13,280
i'll see if i can work on um getting

2255
01:27:17,189 --> 01:27:15,679
john on and you and ken

2256
01:27:19,030 --> 01:27:17,199
uh so that

2257
01:27:21,430 --> 01:27:19,040
you can be involved with the next

2258
01:27:23,110 --> 01:27:21,440
interview well good night everybody yeah

2259
01:27:24,550 --> 01:27:23,120
good night everybody uh rich did you

2260
01:27:26,470 --> 01:27:24,560
have one more thing to add go ahead i

2261
01:27:28,550 --> 01:27:26,480
got the information on the john ford

2262
01:27:31,510 --> 01:27:28,560
website updated for his law his attorney

2263
01:27:33,350 --> 01:27:31,520
in phil good it's all on there okay john

2264
01:27:35,350 --> 01:27:33,360
and go go throw that website out again

2265
01:27:39,350 --> 01:27:35,360
for our listeners too rich

2266
01:27:43,910 --> 01:27:41,590
perfect and perfect and we'll see you